Open Forum on Political Discussions and Moderation

[David Houck]

In the last few posts to this thread, Jonathan, Bill, and Terry have all made thoughtful points that I think are worthy of further consideration and discussion.  So I would like to hear from all of you that care about this issue.  Please share your thoughts about what limits our forum should have on political discussions.
 
And for those of you who don't wish to share your thoughts in public, you are welcome to email me.  But I do encourage here a thoughtful respectful discussion about what our boundaries should be.
 
I would suggest that when thinking of what you would allow, consider all of the types of things that could qualify as acceptable posts under the limits you would propose.  Consider how the discussion of such topics might make others in our community feel.
 
For instance, topics that I've noticed as being hot button topics that can really stimulate emotional heated visceral angry reactions are Palestine/Israel, the new immigration law in Arizona, Prop 8 in California, the new Health Care Reform bill in the US, and most recently, off-shore drilling.
 
I'm not asking you to discuss these topics, in fact for the purposes of this discussion I prefer that you don't.  What I am asking is should we have limits on the types of topics that are allowed here, and if so, why and what are those limits, and if not, why not.  And if the limits you propose were followed, how would that affect the other members of our community; would they rejoice, would they leave.
 
And starting with Jonathan's post from yesterday, read every other member's post to this discussion and put yourself in their shoes; understand their position and turn around and look at your position from their point of view.  Don't just post your point of view and then be done with it.  Consider eveyone's point of view.  Go back and forth, discuss the fine points, discuss the gray areas.  Examine what is fair, consider what is hurtful.
 
It is hard for the moderators to know where to draw the line, when to jump in and when not to, what the members of our community want us to do and when.  We do realize of course that the members of the community do not all share the same answers to these questions, and that there is no one answer that will please everyone.  And like the members of the forum, the moderators will tend to have personal tendencies to react in certain ways to certain statements or actions made by others.  However, we also realize that as moderators we have to strive to put our personal feelings about issues aside, and to act in ways that put the community first.
 
I look forward to reading your responses.

[kenner]

I would respectfully ask that any discussion that has nothing to do with all things Alembic be directed to the misc. section. That's what it says to do.....
 
However, I can do like every other forum I frequent, and just bypass those discussions.
 
I come to Alembic's forum for things having to do with Alembic. I go to political forums for things having to do with politics.

[jbybj]

I am of the opinion, that currently in our culture, there is far too much emphasis placed on shielding and protecting people from being offended. If I allowed myself, I'd be offended every minute of every day, there is so much BS thrown about. I choose to either ignore or confront, depending.
 
Except for personal attacks, hate speech, and ridicule, I would vote for no boundaries, IN THE MISC thread. With maybe a parental warning posted.
 
I recently had a posting edited, cause some people took offense. I did not find my posting offensive in the least. At the same time, my opinions and attempts at life's observations are not so important as to cause me the least bit of grief at having them removed. Either way, my dogs still love me, my family still tolerates me, and my basses still play well. In other words, it's SUPREMELY UNIMPORTANT, as is most of the nonsense that offends people.  
 
Peace, JBY

[chalie_holmes]

I believe that this site should be specific to Alembic instruments as well as the rest of musical instruments. Political views need to be stated and or debated @ a political site.
Respectfully Submitted,
 
Chalie Holmes

[jbybj]

My problem is that I don't go to other sites, cause I don't care for the members in most forums. I like the people here, so these are the folks I want to share with and hear from. But that's just me.....
 
BTW, my post that got edited was musical in nature, reviewing a concert, not political at all.
 
JBY
 
(Message edited by jbybj on May 06, 2010)

[jazzyvee]

I don't partake regularly in other musical instrument forum's either. I did try a good few years back and i found that my musical experience, desires tastes were not really represented by those forums as it seems most of the ones I visited are rock music based.
I joined here at the time when I was considering my first alembic and it's in the main been great. I've learnt so much about guitars and basses from here alembics and others too. In the main I keep out of the heated debates although my sarcastic side finds it hard to resist the temptation to wind it up but I do resist and avoid those threads.  
 
I can't say I've felt enthusiastic about everyone's FTC build but I can understand someone who is paying a small fortune to have their dream created at Alembic being miffed if someone doesn't share their taste or is saying something they feel is disrespectful.  But if you put it out there it's open season for comment.
 
I guess for me really the forum is about good harmony amongst members with just enough demented intervals to add interest without ruining the music.
 
Jazzyvee

[benson_murrensun]

Jonathan, Bill and Terry have indeed all made thoughtful points! Perhaps, in that other thread, I was unsuccessful at making my point. So here goes.
Surely it is up to Alembic to decide what level of controversy it will allow on its Forum.
There is a Miscellaneous section which can be used for things other than Alembic-specific material.
A moderator, by definition, is bound to keep things moderate (of average or medium quality etc.) He is going to have his work cut out for him with this bunch. Alembic products are not of average or medium quality, and my best guess is that neither are the people that make up the Company of average or medium quality nor are the contributors to the forum of average or medium quality; certainly this last group is not interested in products of mediocrity. Therefore it stands to reason that discussion on the Forum is not going to be particularly milquetoast.
So, if Alembic is going to allow discussion on topics other than musical intruments and related products, we are going to see thoughts volunteered that are provocative. My opinion is that this should actually be encouraged, rather than censored. Lively, provocative discussion from diverse points of view, when offered in a positive spirit, is what helps us be stimulated and moving forward.

[lembic76450]

I guess for me really the forum is about good harmony amongst members with just enough demented intervals to add interest without ruining the music
 
Jazzyvee,  sounds like the basis for a great jam.

[terryc]

And it was all the above comments and views is why I originally joined in the first place
You know, along with my kids and girlfriend, I feel I can really trust the people here, if I was stuck in the USA and needed help and would find a PC and ask you people for help as I am sure most of you would also but there are  some I definitely don't trust.
 I have made comments that anger people but a short e mail or post with an apology of my misunderstanding rectifies the offence..have some people just lost their humbleness??
I hope this forum becomes the great meeting place that it is again with some very easy adjustments made by us... the people who contribute

[mike1762]

Dissention is not necessarily a bad thing.  It's when things get personal that it becomes a problem.  But when one has to resort to personal attacks in order to defend their position, it doesn't say much for the person OR their position.  Nearly all of our heated threads were instigated and perpetuated by some of our more colorful members, but a few of our more reasonable members were sometimes drawn into the fray as well.  Although I tend to lean towards the freedom of expression camp, one should not impose their narcissism on the good people of this forum and you should always remember where you are and how your comments might affect Alembic.
 
Although I've never met any of you, I feel like I know all of you.  The level of cognition is much higher here than at other forums I have visited.  As such, I would value your opinion on any number of topics (not necessarily musical)... it would be nice to be able to have those conversations here.  I think the line is the point at which a discussion or comment might have a negative impact on the business of Alembic.  But this is coming from a guy who just recently had to stand in the corner because of a comment I made about one of our more colorful members.

[afrobeat_fool]

I have taken Art's thoughts into account, type, read and delete. If one feels the same way a day later, then post. I am glad to see Kenner post here as he is a new member but seems to have been a reader of the forum for a while. The rest of the posts have been from long time members. We know what to do folks. Patience and big ears goes a long way in the performance of music and daily interactions. I for one really like being here with you. I have made one good friend here, and had some great conversations with many others. I guess my plea is that we try to understand others point of view and if we can't, then leave it alone. Asking for moderators interference in all but the most disturbing posts seems unneeded. The primary instigator is gone(for now), the dust has settled, and only the memory lingers. It too will be gone soon. Thank you all for taking the time to make this a great place to be.
 
 
Nick

[lbpesq]

I think James hit it right on the nose:
 
Except for personal attacks, hate speech, and ridicule, I would vote for no boundaries, IN THE MISC thread. With maybe a parental warning posted.
 
I just want to know what I should warn my mother about?  lol
 
Bill, tgo

[terryc]

Bill. as you know, if you upset your mother then it takes half a lifetime to get her forgiveness lol

[hb3]

I agree with Nick. I don't think there's any need to pre-emptively censor when there's no serious personality conflicts going on between posters. That's going to stifle discussion just because it can be unpredictable, but unpredictable doesn't necessarily translate into bad.

[jon_jackson]

Rather than re-type what others have previously said and probably more gracefully, I am in agreement with Jonathan, Bill, James and Terry.  Respectful discussion.