... I find the first 2 of 3 posts before Toby's 2 back-to-back posts to (apparently) be a perfect illustration of the ridiculous uptightness here... and, at the same time, how current policy discourages many people who are NOT so uptight from being here.
Thanks for the gratuitous swipe at Faux News. You've just concisely demonstrated why politics have no place here.
As I read this it's hard for me to really integrate and grasp the notion that this is a serious comment... that someone actually did (and/or actually COULD)... be offended by this. I'm still not actually sure. I'm actually not sure if pas is serious or joking... though I'm interpreting the former to be the case.
If so, this is *in my opinion, from my perspective* ridiculous beyond measure. But whatever.
What I find possibly even more remarkable is Toby's quote It is my opinion that Alembic will be by sponsoring such a subsection of the forum.
Wow. What a remarkable statement. So... allowing a section (... and JUST one section)where people can speak frankly and freely on matters of any/all importance might hurting their corporate image. Wow. How?
I assert that assertion is preposterous. I further assert that NOT allowing AT LEAST one section in which people can speak freely without censorship speaks much more, and much more negatively.
Whatever. You can do whatever you want. You -as individuals, and collectively- can reason, or you can rationalize... or you can attempt to do both. Those are your options, and your only options.
You can support the one paradigm -in which case you're logically obligated to support its preconditions and requirements- or the other paradigm... or you can try and combine them and see what results you get.
In fact, it's all been done before and the results are consistent and predictible.
You can choose to do whatever you want. You have the right to do so. This is not in question.
But, for your own benefit and sake, KNOW what you do... and be honest about it.
Be honest about what you're debating/discussing/considering.
There are PLENTY of people who DO have the skills to engage in civil and ration discussion about the many extremely important things in the world OTHER THAN the commonality of Alembic instruments that likely initially drew most of us here. This is plain fact that can not be rationally denied.
It is also plain fact that A LOT of people -who DO/HAVE/MIGHT/WOULD/WOULD STILL come here... do so at least partially for this UNIVERSE of richness... for the fact that we can, in our communications, discuss... well, in theory, anything and everything. Why not?
For me, the notion of censoring anything anywhere is preposterous, and moreover, just plain alien. Why? You see, I don't have anything to fear. There isn't anything anyone can say that can have power over me... I learned an old rhyme about sticks and stones quite some time ago, and it's true.
But okay, I get that some people haven't developed or aren't willing to exercise the skills that myself and others DO have. Experience has taught me frankly that most if not such individuals are in actuality choosing to be self-limiting... but, if so, or not... that is their choice.
However, they shouldn't be limiting me.
AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT. Yeah.
To be blunt, from my perspective, anyone who confesses that they are unable or unwilling to deal with open, honest, and offensive communication is confessing a profoundly disturbing and problematic condition that I can not regard in any way other than like a physical and/or mental disease, or addiction, or serious negative condition.
In such cases, I sympathize with such individuals, and hope they will choose to make the best choices to change their conditions, and I will tend to help them to the extent they're willing.
But I will never accept and will always resent the notion of them putting chains or limitations on me and others because of the negative choices they make.
If you're not up for open communication... don't engage in it. If you don't like reading something... don't. If you don't like listening to something... don't.
Censorship is about the worst in/of us... about the lowest common denominator... calling the shots and restricting the best in us.
This is a profound and important truth that can either be recognized or evaded. The consequences can also be recognized or evaded. In either case, they exist, and, though subtle, are far-reaching.
Censorship doesn't, and can't protect us from anything; but it can and does divide us, and subject us to different and inconsistent treatment. That's a fact, and you only need consider it to see that it is so.
I would go so far as to argue that free speech and survival go hand and hand, and advocating censorship is advocating that which is contrary to our survival and well-being.
I hold that any and all arguments -and I've heard 'em all- that we need to be protected from offensive/free speech are preposterous. And be clear, you can NOT separate free speech from offensive speech... nor can either of these be separated from meaning or important speech...
It's quite a thing to advocate restrictions on speech and communications; you can't do so without opening many cans of worms and causing many consequences.
In my opinion, only the profoundly clueless and deluded fail to grasp that these consequences and problems are not only MUCH MORE SERIOUS than the alleged problems censorship/restrictions on open communcation supposedly prevent... BUT are in fact far greater concerns than anything that COULD result from open communication.
Let us ask, consider, and answer the question, what's the worst that can happen if free/uncensored speech occurs? Well the answer, gang, is those individuals that are so self-limited by choice that they feel they must leave any sites where they see things that offend them... will leave.
In fact, this is a given that nothing can change. Including attempting to cater to them.
Again, you can do what you want. But again, you should be honest about it, and aware of the consequences.
If you want to allow the lowest common demoninator... or let's just say those that are unable or unwilling to acquire/exercise the adult skills that myself and plenty of others have to engage in open, free, uncensored, and offensive communication... and all the incredible rewards and benefits and horrors (I personally don't see any at all, even one) -to keep those who ARE capable of doing do from doing so... be honest about it, and realize that there are a lot of people who aren't going to come here.
Ultimately, censorship, and an environment in which free and open (and therefore offensive) communication is forbidden... is ultimately more harmful and offensive than any supposed evil or concern it might address.
See, as part of a larger issue, what really needs to happen is that those who have the ability to reason and integrate, and rationally and civilly discuss and argue... let's say ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING OF IMPORTANCE... should be able to do so freely and without interference from those who can't or won't... and should be able to help those people get better (to whatever extent they're willing, and for those for which that is not at all, that is, of course, their (sad) choice.
What should NOT happen in the world, in any way shape or form, in any arena, is for those who can and do have the ability to engage in such discourse to have their ability to do so undermined by those who choose a more limited path.
If you don't want to think, fine, but don't keep me from doing so.
If you're not up for reasoning, fine, but don't try to keep me from doing so.
If you're not up to reading things you disagree with and responding in a rational, civilized, reasoned, and adult-like manner, and communicating in an open fashion, and with all that entails and implies... don't. Your loss.
But if you support restricting others abilities to do so, you're... something bad, shameful, and something which is responsible for the harm and evil in the world.
No kidding.
The choice is up to you. But you can't escape the consequences. So be honest about it. Take the blinders off and try and look at the infinitely bigger picture than the tiny sliver you -those of you that advocate an other-than-uncensored environment- are seeing.
For my parting comment, I'll add I don't expect my words to register much here. From what I can tell, most who do or would agree with me have already left, and those who've stuck around are a self-selected bunch that does consider such an environment acceptable.
From my perspective, frankly, the place seems to be a lost cause... as far as a place I'd feel welcome and inclined to participate in. And I'm not the only one. And I've taken the time to explain in great, explicit, and clear detail, and in very reasonable terms -why this is so.
Later, folks. I don't expect to be back to post again, after this, but I'll leave the door open. I'll check in in a couple days or weeks and see if I see any indication what I've said actually registered with and meant anything to anyone, or whether it was a waste of time. My expectation that the latter will be the case (along with the expectation/possiblity that my post(s) would just plain be censored) is why I've not made this effort before.
