Have you dropped your Alembic?

[jazzyvee]

No this is not a challenge to you to see if the series basses have more bounce than the others.
 
I was at a gig very recenty and the band were setting up for sound check and as the bass player
 put his bass round his neck the strap came off the front strap button sending the bass crashing to the floor.
 
Unfortunately the neck/machine heads hit the deck first and surprisingly split... just behind where the  neck and head are.  
 
Anyway I went up to see him, he was devastated. I noticed the bass was a sheckter which I don't really know much about as to if they are expensive or cheap.
 
What I did notice was that the neck was not one complete peice of wood, rather it was joined by an eliptical shaped joint which is a few frets long  where the neck and head of the bass meet.
 
Basically this had come apart at that point.  I guess it myst have been a badly made joint to split from the a fall like that especially when you think of the abuse Hendrix and Townsend gave to their instruments before they came apart....
 
It also reminded me of an incident I had years ago.  
I  had a cheap Washburn bass which I was carrying up the concrete, tiled staircase at the office where I worked and the zip on my case broke open and the bass went sliding down the stairs behind me thankfully body end first.  
Damage was limited to scratches and I had to have the neck taken out and re-seated and the truss rod needed adjusting.
 
I have read somewhere that Stanley Clarke's alembic  and double bass were blown over at a return to forever gig one time and the double bass was trashed and the alembic survived.
 
Seeing that first incident made me wonder how resiliant our world class basses are to the physical damage that can arise from the rigours of the stage.
 
Personally I never rely on the strap when putting the bass on and always hold the bass until the strap feels secure.  
 
BTW is there a locking clip that fits over the Alembic strap pin and will cope with the button size and a thick leather strap? the one I have for my Music man is smaller and will not fit.
 
I would be interested in hearing some survival or other  horror stories from other members....

[adriaan]

I don't know about any strap locks that fit over regular strap pins. I've read somewhere that there's a strap lock system where the pin provides enough hold for a regular strap, but of course that would be an accident waiting to happen.  
 
I'm using Schaller strap locks, for which you need to replace the strap pin. It depends on how thick your strap is, but the Schallers have no problems with mine.  
 
One thing about the Schallers is that you need to check the nut on the lock to see if it's still tight. I guess that holds true for any strap lock system.
 
(Message edited by Adriaan on January 02, 2004)

[David Houck]

I've used Schaller strap locks for a couple decades and never had a problem.  Like Adriaan said, I always check to make sure each lock is set; and as Jazzy said, I always hold the bass tight until the strap is secure.
 
Not really a horror story but a lesson learned.  A couple years ago we played a bar which did not normally have bands.  There was no stage, just an area set aside for the band.  The drummer booked the gig not only for us but as a venue for a party for some of his friends.  When we took our break after the first set, I headed outside for some fresh air.  The drummer's wife and a friend, both fairly intoxicated, came up to the stage area and the friend fell into the guitar player's rig knocking over and damaging two guitars and an amp.  The damage to the guitars was cosmetic and not major, the amp required repair which the friend eventually paid for.  It could have been much worse.  We asked the drummer to not book any more parties or venues where the stage was not separated from the crowd and decided on a policy of not allowing people on the stage.

[811952]

In my opinion, Straplocks = false sense of security.
I played a gig once where a guy hopped across the monitor barrier and ended up face down on my taurus pedals.  Somehow he managed to fling the Alembic onto the dance floor, face down as well (I was playing my fretless Jazz at the moment).  He rattled my bass amp pretty well (he bumped the volume on the taurus pedals all the way up) but the Alembic got nothing more than a barely discernable bent D tuning key.  Otherwise, nary a scratch.  Suffice it to say I've been much more territorial in the last 20 years!  These are well-built instruments...
John

[kungfusheriff]

Strap locks wear out. Washers don't--unscrew the strap pin, put the hole in the strap over the pin's screw-hole, put the hole in the washer over both holes, through which you slip the strap-pin screw, and screw the pin plus the whole assembly down. Unless you manage to avoid noticing the whole shebang gradually unscrewing itself, our bass will be secure so long as you keep the screw tightened down. It's cheaper, too.

[the_schwartz]

My Elan has the recessed strap locks, which work really well, though they require you to install the actual locking mechanism on your strap.  The installation is a pain, as is moving the mechanisms to a different strap hole for length adjustments.  But the payoff is that they feel rock solid secure.
 
I am really careful with my Elan. I keep a constant eye on it when I walk with it, and pay careful attention to keep it away from anything it might bump into.  Whenever I'm not using it at home, I keep it in the case rather than on a stand.  When I do use a stand, it's an Ultimate Support Stand.
 
My bass has been kept in near mint condition since it was made in 1990, and I don't want to be the one who gives it its first scratch.

[bracheen]

A trick my second bass teacher told me was never remove the strap.  Removing the strap makes the hole stretch increasing the risk of it falling off while playing.  All of my instruments have straps that were put on brand new and not removed since.  They feel pretty secure for normal circumstances.
 
Sam

[dannobasso]

Schalers work well for me. My dunlops gave out and my exploiter took a dive and had a large chunk taken out of the back of the upper horn. So they are shiet. My custom spoiler 6with dragon inlay fell out of it's stand forward (twice) headstock snapped up yo the top laminate. I had it repaired twice. I do not use stands at home I have all wall mounts for all my basses and guitars. For some reson cheap instruments almost never break. But we all know they sound like (fill in the colorful metaphor of your choice). I learned the hard way about having repairs done by people other than Alembic. My advice, send it back to it's parents for repair. It will be worth the wait, and done right.

[dean_m]

Oh boy,
 
I used to use both the Dunlop (push button style) and the Schaller locks.  The problems that I've encountered are that they do give you a false sense of security like John had stated.  Plus, when they fail, they fail big time!!!!
 
Dunlop now makes a cam style lock that fits over a stock strap pin and the strap itself.  You don't have to install anything on your bass or your strap.  I've been using them for about a year now and they seem pretty foolproof.
 
To answer your other question, my Elan is built like a tank.  It has taken somewhat of a beating the last few years it's been on the road with me.  I do take good care of it but you can only do so much when there are other people involved in handling your instruments.  
I can't even begin to tell you some of the horror stories that have invloved stairways, drum risers etc.  There's even a part in our show with The EGB where the drummer and I do sort of a bass/drum duo on my bass where I slap and he sticks all on the bass.  Of course he's gentle but how gentle can you be.  Sorry if I'm making anyone sick here.  The bass is bulletproof and has never failed me.  Of course I don't make a habit of abusing my basses but I do know that in bad situations out of my control, the bass can take it.
 
Peace,
Dino

[musikill]

I have been using the push button style (don't remember the brand but it was a major name) for years and have never had one fail.  I have used the same sets for over 15 years without failure.  I have not been easy on them either.  I don't see how one could fail but if it did and you have the lock positioned correctly the bass would stay put - or at least would not simply fall off.  Mine are a U shaped channel of sorts that slides over the strap peg (which is part of the lock).  You have to push the button to attach it to the bass and as long as the open part of the channel is facing up the bass should stay put unless the lock is torn out of the strap.  If that sort of force is applied nothing is going to hold the bass.  The key is to get the nut that holds the lock on the strap, very tight.  And make sure that the strap peg is screwed in securely but DO NOT over tighten so as not to strip the screw in the hole.  I have never seen a strap peg tear out of a bass unless it was overtightened.
Fact is - you are much safer using a strap lock system than not.  There is no way I am going to trust my investment to a piece of leather pushed on to a peg.
greg

[bob]

I know the original question was about how strong these instruments are, but I'm not sure how that helps me...
 
As for the straplocks, I'm with kungfu on this one: screw the strap on directly. I've done mine a little differently, with a small bushing so that the strap isn't riding directly on the screw, but same concept - a screw and a nice big washer. Just make sure the screw is still long enough - many of them seat down inside the strap button, and depending on how you space things out, the screw might become effectively shorter.
 
For an instrument of this caliber, dedicating a strap to it is no big deal. Maybe I'd feel differently if I had a huge collection (or if I happened to wear really tall hats or something), but I also don't like the fact that most straplocks stick out so far, plus they make these irritating metallic noises when being attached or as they move around (reminding me of nails on a chalkboard, for some reason).
-Bob

[malthumb]

I have two Alembics and two Hanewinckels.  I have one of each bass with Schallers and one of each bass with Dunlops.  The Schallers are the horseshoe shaped piece that lock over the strap button.  The Dunlops are the push button type.  I've had one near miss with each type of lock.  Ironically, both near misses involved Alembic basses.
 
With the Schallers, you do have to watch the tightness of the nut.  The other thing you need to look out for is that the horseshoe thingy can rotate to where the open end points down (you don't want that).  With my Schaller close call, I was checking the nut when it popped off, so there was no real problem.
 
With the Dunlops, the push button retracts little ball bearings that re-extend when you join the post to the strap button connector.  The close call that I (and others) had was when unbeknownst to me, all the ball bearings did not re-engage and the post just slipped out of the strap button.  I was playing at the time, so the neck was supported.
 
Peace,
 
James

[dela217]

I have been using the Schaller style strap locks for as long as I can remember.  I have them fitted on every Alembic I have.  I only use one strap since all my Alembics have the same body style.  I have not had ANY problems or failures.  But, I have worn grooves in the strap buttons on the bass.  When I start to notice a groove, I just replace them.  Cheap enough.  To me it is not a false sense of security, just an extra measure of insurance.
 
I too have a horror story about one of my Alembics.  I was playing in a club that was very crowded.  It was an unusualy rowdy crowd and they were in rare form.  It came time for the band to take a break.  I put my Alembic on it's stand and I wandered off.  When I started walking back to the stage, I did not see my bass.  It was nowhere in sight.  I first thought it was stolen.  Then I rationalized to the point where maybe one of the sound techs moved it.  Nope.  When I finally got to the stage I found my bass.  It was on the floor on the other side of the stage.  Come to find out a fight broke out in the crowd, and worked it's way up to the stage.  Somehow my Alembic got involved in the scuffle and was either knocked across the stage, or perhaps used as a weapon.  The details were fuzzy.  Anyway, the only thing that happened to the bass is a scuff on the back of the bass that barely penetrates the wood.  The bass is a graphite necked bass, and it survived perfectly.  Of course it was quite out of tune, so I suspect it went through a lot. I am glad I did not see it happen.  Fortunately the bass did not suffer any real damage.  
 
But it could have been worse.......
 
I do have a friend here in New Orleans that had a 1978 Alembic Series 1.  It was an omega bodied walnut topped bass.  He and I were playing the same club one night back in the 80's. His band opening for mine.  He had his bass on the stand, but plugged in.  What a mistake.  Someone walked across the stage and snagged his 5-pin cable and knocked the bass out of the stand.  What a mess.  The headstock of the Alembic came off.  Really!  Off.  He was quite disgusted.  I was shocked.  I loaned him my Alembic for his set that night.  I think that is the worst case scenario, and that bass must have been hit just right for that to happen.  It fell on it's face of the headstock and the only thing holding on was the strings.  What a nasty sight.  He had the bass repaired locally, (quite a good repair too) and then sold it.  I heard through the grapevine that the bass was eventually sent back to Alembic for a refurbish by the new owner.

[bigredbass]

jazzyvee:
 
Currently, Schecter seems to have gone the same as ESP and Jackson / Charvel:  They all started as small, hip shops that built improved Fender style guitars that caught on, farmed out production models to the Far East, and lost a great deal of cache' vis-a-vis what made them hip to begin with.  Of course, none of their current customers (watch MTV) can play anyway, so it hardly matters, but they're great for mass murderers/marketers like Guitar Center, etc.  Real big with the tattoo/pierced/bored suburban punks who go to raves in Mom's Suburban.
 
Angled headstocks are succeptible to breaking off at the head/end of neck/first fret area.  It's hard to get enough wood in there while still making a neck that feels right at that spot.  Straight necks (Fender-style) rarely break here, as the design allows more beef at this spot. This is why lots of guitars have some variation of a volute at this spot:  The diamond shaped heel on the back of Martins, the big, almost scoop-shape
on an EXCEL neck, etc.  Any serious guitar repair shop has done lots of amgled-head repairs.
 
As I've heard Susan speak of before, so much of the Series shape came from them starting out as a repair shop.  The point body was originally intended to MAKE you put it on a stand, as it didn't allow you to lean it up against the amp sitting on the floor.  That the shape became an icon for many of us was purely accidental.
 
The laminted headstock was an outgrowth of these same lessons learned in repair:  While the many laminations on the front and back of the headstock is one of the coolest things I ever saw, it is this layering that is used to build strength at this traditional weak point.  If you look on the back of these necks, the lamination extends back past the first fret to help build this area up.
 
My SPOILER is an Omega/Series shape, so I've been dreadfully careful as I was warned not to knock the tips off the Omega. I'm sure I could buy an F1x and a SuperFilter for what it would cost to fix that particular train wreck !
 
I've always used the Schallers and been quite satisfied and secure.  Believe me, if it starts to fall, I'll be under it !
 
J o e y

[bigredbass]

P>S>
 
From the College of Musical Knowledge's Applied Gig-ology Course:
 
1) At the gig, it's on a stand BEHIND the amp (where NOBODY walks)
 
2) I use the little short stands with the two arms and the center post that hits that back of the bass between the two pickups:  Much lower center of gravity (can't hardly MAKE it tip over), fits in the gig bag (one less separate thing to carry), and there is no weight on the neck except the string tension (and I don't get those wear marks near the nut from HANGING it in a stand).  I'm a setup freak, and I don't care to have the weight of the bass see-sawing the action on the neck when I'm not playing it.  Geez, I'm getting really too wound up about several thousandths of an inch . . . .
 
J o e y