Did you ever see a grown man cry?

[jacko]

Yesterday evening, the BBC broadcast the Spike Lee Documentary, 'When the Levee Broke'. 2 years to the day since Katrina hit New Orleans. Having seen limited news coverage over here and only one prior documentary (which was more to do with a famous photographer restoring his damaged images), it was horrifying to see the catalogue of administrative failures that ended up costing the lives of so many of your countrymen. I've discussed this once before with Micheal Delacerda but I still shed a silent tear when seeing the devastation that was caused and I was furious to learn that bodies were still being found in houses that had supposedly been searched 6 months after the event.
I'm guessing there are still people waiting for some kind of government aid to rebuild their lives. My thoughts and prayers are with  those folk...
 
Graeme

[terryc]

Graeme, saw it too..you know we had a similar situation here this summer in Gloucester, here are two 'civilised' countries and both of them cannot even manage a major disaster, to see the citizens of Gloucester attempting to get water from empty bowsers was unbelievable. You would think we were as with New Orleans third world countries.
I guess it is okay for the British & American administration to support the Iraq conflict though at the cost of millions of dollars and pounds not forgetting the soldiers who have lost there lives.
I sometimes wonder where governments get their priorities

[flaxattack]

graeme
thats one of the reasons we love our president...
friends first- people last.....

[bsee]

You can't believe everything you see on TV.  The images are clearly very powerful, but so is the propaganda.  So many of these documentary programs are made by people with an agenda who present opinions that they agree with as truth.  I haven't seen this program yet, but your reaction makes me believe that maybe it had some purpose beyond a historical account of events.  
 
There's no doubt that the local, state and federal governments could have responded more effectively, but this was a natural disaster.  How much time and effort to you suppose went in to building a response plan for such an event and whose responsibility do you think it was to do so?  How many times do you think they ran practice scenarios to test out the plan, and how likely would it have been that such a plan would have worked flawlessly when really enacted?  Why weren't the state and local governments channeling funds to the improvement of the levees to handle a category five storm over the past 20 or 50 years instead of waiting for one to hit?  I'm paying extra taxes to support a new sewer system for the town high school, so why wasn't New Orleans collecting them to address the levees before they failed?
 
I am neither supporting nor condemning the actions of any of the government bodies involved here.  After all, that's pretty much a taboo topic on these boards.  Let's not turn this into a massive political debate.  Let's focus our energies on remembering those who were affected by these events, assisting them to recover as we can, and figuring out how to prevent a repeat performance.  
 
Sorry, I guess this is just one of my hot buttons.  While I don't agree with everything governments do, or have done in previous administrations, they aren't responsible for every bad thing that happens in the world.  In the last week I have seen Michael Vick's situation and opposition to the NYC ban on metal bats in scholastic baseball blamed on the federal government.  Personally, I am sick to death that they haven't enacted and enforced a ban on halitosis after all these years.  
 
If there were no Iraq war, do you think planning for New Orleans to flood in a hurricane would have bubbled to the top of the funding/effort priority list?  I could see it if the country had dozens of big cities around the coast built below sea level.  Preventing and responding to such disasters would be a regular part of the culture.  The technology for preventing them would be improved as would the experience in responding.  It is both unfortunate and fortunate that New Orleans is unique.  If this happens a second time, though, it will be unforgivable.  
 
People have to be responsible for the choices they make and for their own livelihood.  Maybe I will just go buy some beach front property.  I'll build a walled compound just off shore, drain out the water and build my house there.  When it floods in a storm, I can look forward to the government paying me a bunch of money to rebuild it and restart my life, right?  Government aid is nothing more than forced charity on the part of every taxpayer.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is also often abused.  If you feel strongly, I am sure you can find ways to donate your own time and money to the cause of repair and recovery.  We did.

[eligilam]

My favorite part of the documentary was when some of the interviewees claim they heard the blasting caps going off where the government had planted bombs on the levees.

[lbpesq]

You really can't blame the Federal Gov't for it's inadequate response.  After all, how can you condemn Bush for appointing his good buddy Brownie as head of FEMA?  I mean, who do you think should be in charge of emergency operations, someone with actual real life experience in the area, or a friend of the president who knows a lot about horses?  What's the point of even being president if you have to give jobs to qualified people instead of your friends?  And, as Bob points out, Katrina was a natural disaster.  It was obviously nature that prevented the delivery of water, food, clothing and other basic supplies, wasn't it?    
 
Bob's also right that people should take responsibility for their own actions.  All those people in the flooded portions of New Orleans chose to live there.  They could have chosen to live in Beverly Hills, Westchester County or on Park Avenue in New York, Pacific Heights in San Francisco, or any other place.  They chose to live in New Orleans, so they should clean up after themselves.  And while I'm talking about New York, those people all chose to live there.  Why should everyone else's tax dollars be used to help out with the aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks?  And how about all those people who choose to be poor and choose not to buy health insurance.  Why should those who choose to be wealthy have to help pay?  It just isn't fair!  
 
Bill, tgo
 
(Message edited by lbpesq on August 30, 2007)

[ajdover]

Bill,
 
   I take it you're not a Republican and/or conservative then? ;-)
 
Alan

[olieoliver]

I?m a pedestrian.
 
Democratic and Republicans alike walk all over my rights.  
 
Ba-Dump_dah
Olie

[bsee]

I agree with you there, Olie!

[dela217]

I did not get to see the documentary. I don't think I will be watching anytime soon either, the scars are too fresh. I too think that there is a bit of propaganda with this film, just like the documentary on 911, ( I forget what it is called - never watched it either ) and Supersize Me.  I am just saying this from what others have said, since I did not see it firsthand.
 
I know for a fact that there was much preparation over the years for a storm of this magnatude.  We had drills and evacuations since I was a child.  But nothing prepares you for the real thing.
 
I work at a large state healthcare facility.  Where I work there are about two thousand employed there. It's pretty large for a hospital. We have 2 teams for our hurricane preparedness.  The team I was on is supposed to come back to New Orleans after it was over and pick up the pieces.  Working closely with the disaster director before the storm, I knew firsthand what was involved here.  Before the storm, we thought we had it under control and had thought of every scenario.  When the storm came on shore, it was quite obvious that there is NO WAY anyone can prepare for something like this.  All of the pre planning, backup plans and provisions were useless.  Once you factor in rising water, panic, and the breakdown of law, it was obvious that all the planning in the world was for nothing.  What did not help matters was that no one was rescued from where I work for over a week. Food was scarce, meals consisted of 4 green beans and a few ounces of water.  People coming to the facility for refuge were turned away to litteraly drown in the streets.  It was truly every man for himself.  I am both sorry and glad that I was not there to witness it firsthand, since I was on the recovery team. But I regret that I was not there to help. My point here is that I cannot blame the planning, both at my facility and on the governmental level.  It was just more than could be imagined.  A sad, sad series of unfortunate events unfolded and I find it very difficult to point any fingers of blame.  I just hope that it never happens again in my lifetime.
 
By the way, the blasting that people heard were river barges breaking through and over the levees on the Mississippi river bank.  The barges broke free of their moorings and floated into the neighborhoods.  This also happened in the same neighborhood in the mid 60's for hurricane Betsy.
 
I am back in my neighborhood and back in my home.  It is completely rebuilt.  AND I did not use one single penny of government money.  And I cleaned up after myself!  We are doing fine, but still waiting for furniture.  I am sitting at a folding plastic table typing this on my work laptop.  And when I go to bed tonight, I will be sleeping on the floor again.  Here it is 2 years later and my life is still not what it was.  But I am grateful, I know personally of others that did not fare as well.  All we lost was our stuff.  I am not looking for sympathy, I am just trying to give outsiders perspective.  I am under the impression that people in other parts of the country think that all is fine here. It's not.

[flaxattack]

how could be possibly blame bush?
lets go to the video tape./...
he hired brown and chertoff-amongst other winners
he ignored the info provided prior to the event
he sat on his ass and let brown snooze at the wheel and say info was slow to come in when every news channel was showing the devastation.  
the only guy who stood up and said we f'd up was the army corps of engineers saying they did a crappy job building the levees.  
wonder what bob would say if his town was decimated and the govt snoozed away,,,,

[bsee]

Michael,  
 
Kudos to you for your character and efforts to be a part of the solution.  I think that was part of my point on the preparation side, that the reality was bound to throw challenges at you that were either so much greater in magnitude, or just totally unexpected.  Now that this has happened, though, I expect that the experience should improve the planning for a possible future disaster.  
 
Out of curiosity, when you say you're waiting for furniture, is it a matter of a shortage, transportation issues, insurance delays, or simply getting the funds together to buy what you need?
 
We have a few contractors as part of our business that are located in the area.  We sent them several boxes of supplies in the weeks after Katrina for their use and to spread around their neighborhoods.  Canned foods, socks, underwear, and kids toys were among the most appreciated items from what we heard.  
 
We also sent a couple dozen people down there this spring for an off-site company meeting.  We were going to send them to LA, but felt it might be beneficial to send some commerce back to New Orleans so we moved it.  Things were definitely nothing like they had been a few years earlier and it showed in the demeanor of the people.
 
Thanks again for sharing your experiences.  What we have heard from real people has been so much more important than anything the many propaganda machines have turned out.

[811952]

Michael,
 
I work with a woman who was a mid-level university administrator.  She wants nothing more than to be able to return permanently, but her job is gone for now.  Since she leased her domicile, she isn't counted among the displaced.  When she talks about visiting down there, going through her old neighborhood and just driving around town, tears fill her eyes.  
 
I bet you have a thousand stories to tell that make her's sound like a fairy tale.  
 
I cannot begin to comprehend what you all have gone through, and are still going through.  With any luck, I will never be able to comprehend it.  It is extremely important that we remember it, and you, and her, and all the real people who lost everything or simply didn't make it.
 
John

[David Houck]

Friends; in addition to being an ongoing, heartbreaking disaster, this is also an ongoing, hot-button political issue.  And while I think it important that we remember what has happened on the Gulf Coast and that we continue to help, I also think it important that in this forum we refrain from casting aspersions at each other.  It's certainly understandable that this topic can elicit very emotional reactions, but directing our emotional reactions negatively at our fellow club members only results in hurt feelings and lingering anger.
 
Karma.  When we treat others positively, positive energy spreads; when we treat others negatively, negative energy spreads.
 
There is a popular quote from Gandhi; be the change that you want to see in the world.  If you want to see positive change in the world, then a good first step is to begin to put positive change into practice in our everyday lives, at the post office, the grocery store, and with our friends in this forum.
 
So, while it's certainly understandable that this is an emotional issue, we don't have to attack each other here in our forum.
 
Thanks.

[dela217]

Bob; In response to your question about our furniture, I am not really sure of the answer.  We have already paid for a house of furniture, but very few pieces have shown up.  I guess that furnishings are in such demand down here that everything is backloged.  I am not sure if it is at the manufacturer level or at the retail outlet.  But we are promised that our bedroom set will be here by the end of September!  I guess because we are so particular about our furniture it takes a while to make.  Everything we ordered so far has not been anything the local stores keep in stock.  
 
I guess it is like ordering a custom made bass!