Author Topic: How does the Alembic Filter Range work?  (Read 628 times)

jazzyvee

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« on: February 06, 2013, 12:17:14 PM »
I'm just really checking my understanding of this so please correct any misunderstandings I may reveal in my post.
 
I've read that the range of the Low Pass Filters on alembics is 350Hz to 6kHz so am i right in thnking that the filter only filters frequencies between those limits and anything outside that gets attenuated by 12db/octave?
 
There is a long thread somewhere about why the limit is 6kHz at the top end as there is all kinds of noise up there and that makes complete sense. However I don't recall anything about what happens at the bottom end of the range.  So my question is, what happens to frequencies below 350Hz.
 
http://club.alembic.com/Images/16271/41122.html?1182027166
 
In that FAQ thread there is a line When the control is rotated completely counterclockwise you get a flat response up to the filter setting.
So does that mean you get a flat response on all frequencies below 350Hz including the sub bass frequencies or does it mean that it is flat only between the upper and lower filter range and beneath the lower filter point the signal is attenuated by 12db/octave as it does at the upper filter limit?
 
 
Jazzyvee (Confused)
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cozmik_cowboy

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 08:11:11 PM »
When the the filter knob is at one stop, the filter passes all freqs above 6K; at the other stop it passes everything above 350; in between, the cut-off varies as per the position of the knob.  
The quote after the link pertains, I believe, to the SII Constantly Variable Q knob.  At counterclockwise (I think that's anticlockwise your side of the water, no?) response up to the freq at the given filter knob position has no boost; at full clockwise, there's a boost of (IIRC) 16dB at the filter freq, with 1-15.99999dB boost in between, depending on the position of the knob (for SI, that would be flat at position 1, with boosts at 2 & 3).  
 
Peter
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mario_farufyno

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 08:17:50 PM »
You can say that any signal's portion below filter's upper frequency limit should pass virtually unaffected trough a Low Pass Filter, although it is expected some ripple in the response near cut off frequency (some say that those glitches are what makes analog circuits so appealing). The Q switch can also add a ressonant peak on that limit, making Filter's colour even more evident (+12dB really is SOME ripple, isn't?).
 
There is no limitation concerning lows on using magnectic coils Pick Ups (as low/high impedance changes affects its upper frequency response), so we could expect relatively flat response below LPF cutoff.  
 
But interaction between signal from PUs placed distant along the string can produce cancellations and reinforcements known as Comb Filtering, though. Depending on distance between PUs, their signal sum will eliminate a certain frequency (and its odd harmonics, too) affecting deeply our Bass tone.
 
(Message edited by mario farufyno on February 06, 2013)
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mario_farufyno

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 08:49:14 PM »
As you may know, tone is a result of the Harmonic Series generated when we pluck a string. The string motion is complex and happens simultaneously in various modes. Each of these shapes (vibrational mode) produces a simple tone that are spaced and ordered in harmonic way (in multiples of whole numbers). So if an A string oscilates in 55Hz (cicles per second), in its fundamental mode (1st Harmonic), it will also sound in 110Hz (55 x 2) in the second harmonic, 165Hz (55 x 3) in the third and so on. This is the so called Harmonic Serie.
 
All that simultaneous movements and its corresponding frequency combine in a particular resultant that characterizes Tone. There are always some non-harmonic partials also going on, and the change on tone during time known as envelope, but important to us is that this harmonic modes creates knots (no movement) and bells (full move) along the string.  
 
As lower is the overtone, less divided the string will be and more towards center its focal point will get (right in the bell's middle). As upper is the harmonic, more divided the string will be, and we will get some focal point all along entires string. So it is easier to sense those upper modes near the Bridge and that is why that bridge PU sounds brighter (because it'll get a weak movement of lower harmonics while sensing some upper harmonic right in on spot).  
 
This means each different PUs generates diverse signal content and, probably, out of phase in some frequencies related to the other. When mixed these 2 signals can interact and change each other as the sum causes that spaced holes in the spectrum described as the spikes of a comb that rids off alternated harmonics, which obviously transforms tone entirely - independently where the cutoff frequency is.
 
This is only mixing PUs dependant and has nothing to do with Filter's operation. It really doesn't change your tone below Filter's cutoff frequency, but this combinated signal isn't exatcly flat at all, though...
 
(Message edited by mario farufyno on February 06, 2013)
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mario_farufyno

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 09:47:55 PM »
They claim turning full clockwise being flat because it rises cutoff frequency towards 6KHz. As the PU can't reproduce signals above this, naturally falling -12dB per octave above that, there is no loss in limiting upper spectrum in 6KHz.
 
Any coil can induce electricity flow under changing magnectic field. This can be provided by metal string bouncing near and far from PU magnet surrounded by a conductive coil. That is the principle of a magnectic PickUp.
 
But as they also have a increasing resistance while frequencies gets higher in an effect known as Inductive Reactance (a part of total Impedance of a circuit), coils ends being natural filters to high frequency signal, since they passes lows easy but resist to highs. Bigger is the coil, greater is that Reactance.
 
In fact, most PUs can't even reach that high since focus more on improving signal's strenght at expenses of narrowing the spectra. They opt using heavy coils to acomplish this, since very winded coils can produce bigger magnectic fields and stronger electric signals.  
 
On Alembics they seem to made the oposite choice, sacrificing volume in favour to the idea of getting a wider frequency response PU, using light coils (low impedance PU) to get it. This is clearly why they had to install a preamp right after the PUs, to raise its weak (but broad) signal before sending it trough a long cord. The fitering capabilities are a plus benefit on having an onboard preamp and Wickersham's ingenuity raised it to a state-of-art.
 
* If you want to sound more like conventional or traditional basses, cut Filter off lower (conter-clockwise). Alembic can mimic the limited response of traditional PU systems at some extent...
 
(Message edited by mario farufyno on February 06, 2013)
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terryc

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 07:15:40 AM »
way too technical..use your ears!!!!

811952

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2013, 08:24:11 AM »
It's a low-pass filter.  Everything below whatever frequency the filter is set to, within reason, passes.
 
John

jazzyvee

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 07:55:10 AM »
I've read this a few times and I think I'm ok now with what is going on. I understand that whatever is below the frequency gets passed as I just wanted to know if any processing is done to the frequencies below the lower cut off to make them flat up to the 350Hz when the filtering cuts in. I have been told many times that there are a lot of clear sub frequencies in the sound of my basses at least now I can be clearer in my  
explanation of how things work.
 
Yeah Terry it is technical however if i'm on stage doing some knob twiddling at least I know why I'm doing it and hopefully I can explain what I was trying to achieve when I'm finished. hahaha  
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
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terryc

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2013, 11:18:07 AM »
jazzyvee..took me six months to master the controls and get the sounds I want..now I can select P bass thump, j bass mid range honk to clanky ricky!
I hadn't a clue how they worked just used my well wornout ears!

afrobeat_fool

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 08:10:54 PM »
Don't feel too bad, bro. I have just started to understand the SF-2!  
 
I found the SII electronics were easier, due to having a SI for a few years. You jumped in the DEEP end with a quickness. I wonder witch Alembic line of electronics you will end up liking the most?

jazzyvee

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 01:35:23 AM »
Although it took me ages to grasp, and I think I posted equally frustrating threads, I have found the signature setup and my sc deluxe easiest to work with so far and I can find the sound I want pretty easily. The addition of the 3 position q switches and strings recommended by PierreYves the bass sounds like its been given an overdose of whatever the bass equivalent of eucalyptus is.  That said, I can with the series 2, see the benefit of two volumes even though its slower for me to find the sound I want. Having played single volume guitars for ever moving to two is not instinctive to me yet.
 
One of the area's I find tricky on the series II is deciding if the sound i'm seeking would be achieved by adjusting the q or volume for one or more pickups.  
I guess like Terry suggests its just about using my ears and in addition to that, knowing what you expect the sound to do before you turn a control so you know you are going to be heading to the sound you want rather than blindly searching for that elusive tone by trial and error which could be distracting and just get you to the wrong sound for the song.  
 
 I've actually only gigged twice with his bass and those were very short sets and thats mainly because if I were to use it on one of my jazz-funk gigs I'd need to set radically different tone changes to give me sounds similar to Marcus, victor bailey, jimmy haslip and Stanley Clarke before I started playing and be close enough to fine tune during the song. I know I can't do that yet.  
 
I haven't yet found my home tone position like I have on my sc bass and its very much a work in progress.  All that said,  I think it's a fantastic sounding instrument and I'm really pleased I decided to own it. Once I get the hang of it all will be fine.  
 
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

flpete1uw

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 08:08:20 AM »
Jazzy,
  I just picked up a Series 1 and yes there is a Major learning curve. I too have always used a master volume which the Series 1 lacks. I toyed with the idea of a volume pedal but nixed the idea because I want to learn this Gal on her terms. The best advice I heard was playing each pickup separately to learn the nuances than combine them. I'm finally at a point where I have a starting point or should I say a fallback position. Then I slowly experiment from there. I agree the Q switches add or subtract in ways that seam unintuitive. But in time I'm sure it will all may some sense.
Best of Luck in the exploration
Pete

nnek

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 08:38:20 AM »
I just got my series I electronics restored by the mothership and I thought I knew how my bass worked but now I see how limited the range was on it before the repairs! With a nod to Pete, I could only get one pickup to work reliably for quite a while before all signal finally failed forcing me to send the guts back to Mica. Now I find myself relearning a bass I've had for many years. The Q switches and selector switch as well as several components of the board were replaced. Now I'm having a hard time just trying to get the old sound I was using for the bridge pickup. It's just like a whole new world opened up within an old friend...
 
Kenn

dfung60

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 05:11:06 PM »
Jazzy -  
 
Series EQ controls are a little more complicated, but it's fairly easy to visualize.
 
On your garden variety bass, the tone knob is a simple passive low-pass filter.  Beyond a certain frequency (the corner frequency), any higher freqs are attenuated or filtered off.  When you turn the knob down, you lower that corner frequency and more and more of your output signal is getting filtered off.  The corner frequency and how it changes is based on the relationship between the capacitor in your control cavity and the resistance value of the potentiometer.  In the tone control, the pot is wired so the resistance increases as you turn the knob down.  
 
This is the simplest low-pass filter you can make (called and RC filter, because it's just a resistor and capacitor).  When it cuts frequencies, it does so pretty gently.  Any time you put a capacitor across the signal lines, you create an RC filter.  A long guitar cable can have considerable capacitance, which is why you might lose highs with a long cable in a passive setup (you won't hear this, but your guitar player will).
 
The Alembic EQ is a more advanced kind of filter.  With the the Q-switch in the up position, the EQ pretty much acts like a traditional low-pass filter.  There's an active preamp in the circuit, which takes the cable capacitance out of the picture, and the starting corner freq of the EQ is also a little higher than a Fender.  But it pretty much acts like a regular tone control.
 
In the other two positions of the Q-switch, Alembic is playing an interesting trick.  This control is tweaking the frequency response of the preamp so that there's a sharp peak in the gain right at the resonant frequency.  Below the corner frequency that you're picking with the knob, the sound is unaffected.  Above the corner, it's being cut like the regular tone control.  But right in the vicinity of the corner frequency there's a big boost happening.  
 
This size and shape of resonance can't easily be reproduced by passive circuits, so positions 2 and 3 of the Q-switch are something special.  Position 2 (middle) creates a small resonant boost and Pos 3 makes a large one.  
 
Turning the tone knob is now both boosting and cutting frequencies.  You can sweep the peak through both the harmonics and high fundamentals of the bass and create a lot of sounds that wouldn't otherwise be possible.  I like to tune my bridge pickup to get more pick snap in pos 3, but would normally run the neck pickup in pos 1.  
 
You may notice that if you select Pos 3 on the Q and turn the filter knob while repeatedly plucking the string, it almost sounds like a wah-wah pedal.    This is very similar to what a wah pedal is doing - moving a resonant peak through the freqs.  Most wah pedals are set up as a different kind of filter (bandpass) which creates a resonant peak and cuts everything above and below the center frequency.  Although you can simulate the Series resonant peak with a wah, it would probably wipe out your low end.  
 
In a Series II, the circuit is the same, but now you can adjust the height and sharpness of the resonant peak with the CVQ knob.  
 
So, the best way to approach the Series EQ is to think of Pos 1 as a regular tone control.  To tune in some extra snap, you can use Pos 2 and 3.  The switch setting will control the amount of snap, and the knob will let you tune where the boost is happening.
 
David Fung

cozmik_cowboy

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How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2013, 10:14:33 PM »
...it pretty much acts like a regular tone control.
 
Unless I'm completely misunderstanding this, I'll have to disagree and say they work in pretty much opposite fashion.  The traditional tone knob works, for want of better imagery, vertically; the freq is set, and the knob controls the rate of roll-off.  The Alembic filters work horizontally; the roll-off rate is fixed, and the knob controls the cut-off frequency.  No?
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter