Author Topic: How does the Alembic Filter Range work?  (Read 629 times)

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2013, 11:27:48 AM »
Peter is right, the knob that the Series basses have is a frequency knob while a traditional tone knob is an amplitude knob. I don't know if I would use the word opposite as the results can be similar in some settings, but in terms of the axes of frequency vs. amplitude, that's correct.
 
Also, I would posit that Alembic and many other pickups are quite capable of capturing frequencies above 6khz. It's just that there is no useful information that comes off a bass string above 6khz.  The highest note on a 6 string bass will usually be C5 which is 523.25 Hz. Which means the next overtone of that will be roughly 1.05khz, the next above that is 2.1khz, etc., so 6khz is high enough about the fundamental to allow for a significantly bright tone to be heard. For lower notes, where you would more likely be utilizing the brightness of the notes in snapping and popping, 6khz becomes much higher on the harmonic series for a given note. Keep in mind that octaves double when the frequency doubles to you're really within a couple octaves of the limit of hearing (one octave up to 12khz, which is probably the limit or close to it for us old folks who have been beating up our ears for decades and then an octave above that is 24khz, which no one really hears).

lbpesq

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10683
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2013, 12:11:16 PM »
Edwin:
 
You understand math too well for a lawyer!  hehehehe
 
I think what David was attempting to say was that the Alembic LP filter is similar to a standard passive tone pot in that clockwise gets you more treble and counter-clockwise gets you less treble.
Perhaps overly simplistic, but essentially accurate.
 
Bill, tgo

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2013, 05:55:28 PM »
Hey, don't be callin' me names, I ain't no lawyer yet!
 
But, yes, that's true in terms of more treble and less treble, which is why I wasn't into using the word opposite as the results of an Alembic LPF and a standard Fender style tone control can be similar. It's also why I prefer my pan pots the reverse of most people. Clockwise should be be more treble!
 
But, I also don't think I was being pedantic in emphasizing the difference as we are a pretty discerning bunch and thus can hear the difference between amplitude and frequency adjustment. The main point I was trying to make was that despite the fact that there is always a constant filter on the high frequencies, it is flat for our purposes when the filter is completely clockwise. This post really lays it out like it is: http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/19319.html?1119689541#post40850

cozmik_cowboy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7338
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2013, 06:10:26 PM »
Thanks, Edwin; Frequency v. Amplitude states it more clearly than my opposite, which I came up with visualizing it as a graph with frequency as the X axis & amplitude as the Y.
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

mario_farufyno

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1799
  • Alembic Rogue 4 strings
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2013, 05:27:25 AM »
Great link, Edwin!
 
Note the comb filtering I was talking about...
Not just a bass, this is an Alembic!

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2694
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2013, 11:19:41 AM »
Wow! I just turn the knobs till I like the sound, then I turn the knobs on the amp and have to start all over.

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2013, 11:39:17 AM »
Yeah, the amp vs. bass controls is definitely something to get under control. It's made even more complicated by the fact that the bass control adjustments definitely go to the PA while the amp adjustments may or may not depending on where the PA gets the signal. My philosophy is to use the amp controls to get a good basic sound in the room and then use the bass to adjust the tones for each musically appropriate section. That part does often involve turning the knobs until I like the sound!

that_sustain

  • Advanced Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 240
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2013, 03:06:39 PM »
I've recorded twice now with my bass.  From these experiences I've found the filtering switches are basically an easily controlled limiter/compressor for your sound.  Would this be correct?

sonicus

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5947
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2013, 03:20:45 PM »
Not correct. Filters do not do what a compressor or limiter do .  A filter attenuates frequencies. A limiter or compressor attenuates amplitude /gain .

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2013, 03:21:49 PM »
Not really. A limiter or compressor keeps the signal from going over a specified threshold. In other words, they deal with the dynamics (loudness or softness) of the sound. Equalizers deal strictly with frequency response. While the two can seem to be related, a properly designed equalizer, such as the Alembic filters are, should not affect the dynamic range of the signal.

that_sustain

  • Advanced Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 240
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2013, 03:34:31 PM »
lol I don't get it.  All's I know is it's great.  I notice the bass sounds burpiest with the treble switch flicked downward, Q switch flicked forward...and the tone knob rolled on a little less than halfway.

that_sustain

  • Advanced Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 240
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2013, 04:14:28 PM »
...oh, and with both pickups on, also.  I get a Walk This Way sorta tone with these settings.  Thanks Alembic.

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2013, 04:37:30 PM »
Well, you don't have to get it to enjoy it and make sounds that others will love. Clearly you really do get it because you know how to do that!

gtrguy

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2694
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2013, 08:56:24 PM »
Oh yeah, the Walk this Way Fender phase honk thing. I knew a guy back in the day who was a fan of that and managed to mess with his bass till it sounded like Aerosmith.
 
Compression can pump the quiter parts of the signal and also squish the top, with speed and amount and sustain variables (and a little bit of noise), like a super fast many fingered person on the sound board sliders. A limiter I think usually refers to a virtual hard top of the slider preset type position that the signal level can't go over.
 
Is this a good analogy?

edwin

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3433
How does the Alembic Filter Range work?
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2013, 09:09:08 PM »
That's a pretty good analogy. Technically, compression is measured in a ratio, such as 2:1, where 1 db comes out for every 2db the signal goes over the threshold. For low ratios, you have compression, such as the above, where 10db over the threshold would still give you 5 db out. Higher ratio compressors become limiters. Usually over 10:1 is considered the beginning of limiting. There is brick wall limiting, which is essentially infinity:1.  
 
The speed of the attack and/or release is also a consideration, where compression can have quite slow attack and or release (and in fact, slow release is pretty much a necessity for bass compression because if it's too fast, it interprets the actual wave as individual notes and can result in distortion) whereas limiting tends to be very fast attack and release. Having a slow attack can allow the articulation of the note through at the beginning, but then bring down the level. This can accentuate the attack of the note. Having a fast attack can clamp down on the initial impulse of the note (often the loudest part when measured) and then with makeup gain, the sustain can then be made louder, giving the sense of a smoother tone. So, compressors are very powerful and can create quite a range of sounds.
 
Noise is not a necessary artifact of compression. My Grace M103 (preamp of choice these days) has a compressor that is capable of quite a bit of compression and adds no noise whatsoever. Where compressors gain (pun intended) the reputation for being noisy is that after you've compressed the signal, often you add gain on the output which brings up the noise that was in the signal before the compression. Limiters can also create this consequence.
 
So, at the end of the day, they are related. Both are useful for bass, depending on your sonic goals.
 
(Message edited by edwin on February 18, 2013)