Bridge / String alignment

[thewitt]

Hi Guys
 
First time here as I'm a first time owner.
 
I recently (last night) acquired a 1985 Persuader.  I was very happy to bring her home and make her mine.  I do my own set-ups and am quite well versed at all aspects of bass maintenance.
 
What I don't know how to remedy - There is a problem with the string / bridge alignment.  It seems the bridge is 1/16 to the treble side.
 
I've adjusted the truss rods, raised the action, adjusted the post holes for the bridge...  Still no luck.  
 
Anyway to make this better?
 
Thanks in advance
 

 
(Message edited by thewitt on April 20, 2010)
 
(Message edited by thewitt on April 20, 2010)

[adriaan]

Hi Timothy, welcome to the Club!
 
Congrats on the Persuader, and let's see if we can address the problem with the alignment.
 
First of all, please check this classic thread, Joey's Post on Setting Up Your Bass. Alembics have some set-up features that not everyone is familiar with, but that give you a lot of control.
 
Second, could you post pics of the (adjustable) nut and bridge, from the side and from the top?
 
You say you adjusted the post holes for the bridge, as in drilling new holes?

[lembic76450]

I would suggest a pic of the bridge also.  Could this be from a previous owner cleaning the bridge and not putting it back together properly?
 
Kenn R.

[sonicus]

I can see what you are referring to . Perhaps as the above post suggests check the slots cut in the bridge saddles for proper location .  Perhaps new ones could be available from Alembic or a replacement bridge.

[dadabass2001]

There does appear to be more space between the D and G strings than there is between the A and D (and perhaps the E and A string spacing also). Photos and measurements of the bridge and saddles would quantify the difference.
Mike

[mike1762]

Try swapping the 1st and 4th saddle.  I suspect the bridge has been disassembled at some point (they're more complicated than they look and it's easy to put it back together wrong).  I can't imagine the bass got out of the shop that badly misaligned.

[sonicus]

mike1762 ,  Your post # 515  above  makes perfect sense to me as well.

[thewitt]

Hi All  Thanks so much for all the positive replies.  What a great community.  I've taken some more photos as suggested as well as read through the set up guide.  To hit some specific points above, I'll go in order: >You say you adjusted the post holes for the bridge, as in drilling new holes?  No, sorry if that's the wrong term.  I have not drilled anything on this beautiful bass.  The height of the bridge post anchors (correct term?) can be adjusted up and down, inside the body. I've tried making one high and one low.  That made no difference.   > Could this be from a previous owner cleaning the bridge and not putting it back together properly?  I've inspected this compared to other Alembic bridges and it appears correct.   >Perhaps as the above post suggests check the slots cut in the bridge saddles for proper location  They do have the proper size slot for the appropriate string.   >There does appear to be more space between the D and G strings than there is between the A and D (and perhaps the E and A string spacing also).  Have a look at the photos - Check the inlays as shown at the 17th fret.  You'll see that all 4 strings are mis-aligned.   >Try swapping the 1st and 4th saddle.  That wouldn't work as the slot sizes are different.  The nut appears just fine to me.  The spacing is just what you would expect.  Perhaps replacing the saddles is all that can be done?  I was wondering what you can do with that complicated looking bridge?  :-)  Thanks again for your time and input.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mica]

I would suggest replacing the saddles. There's no way to know if it was done once before, but I suspect it because I've never seen an offset like you're showing leave the factory. A lot can happen in 25 years!
 
You could reslot the existing saddles by cutting the new slot adjacent to the existing slot. It's not ideal, but it could get you up and running.  
 
If you want to order saddles, call us at 7075232611 to place an order over the phone.

[mike1762]

Duh... I forgot about the slot sizes.  Is it possible that the D and G saddle are swapped?  It looks like the slot in the (current) G saddle is more lateral than the slot in the (current) D saddle.  If they got swapped several years ago, the strings may have refilled the slot in what was once the (original) G saddle.  My only other thought (and I don't think it would make any difference): you could try taking the bridge apart and rotating the frame 180 degrees (DON'T turn it upside down... there IS an up side and a down side).  I suspect you're going to have to replace the saddles (as Mica said).

[thewitt]

Hi Mike
 
Thanks for your thoughts.
 
No 'Duh' needed (maybe a D'oh!?).   I don't think any of the saddles are swapped.  The slots are perfectly sized for each string and even at that, it's not just the D and G strings.  
 
Also, it doesn't look like you can rotate this bridge.  I thought of that, looked at it and saw that it has 2 pins per saddle (one to align that is just a post and one that is a screw).  So to do that would mean turning all the saddles backwards - With the rounded edge toward the strings playing area.  I bet that would be a bit sitar-like.  :-)
 
I think Mica has the final word - And Sonicus said it first - Replace the saddles.  I'll call tomorrow and see what we can do.
 
Goodnight!
 
(Message edited by thewitt on April 21, 2010)

[dfung60]

I'm not sure the fix will be this simple.  It looks like the strings are running straight and parallel from the tailpiece to the bridge.  If you recut the G saddle to fix this problem, then the run from the bridge to tailpiece won't be a straight shot.  This will work, but it really begs the question if something else is wrong.  
 
I could be wrong, but I would guess that the saddle slotting procedure is to string up the bass and let the natural string position identify the point to slot the saddle. The positions that this bridge is slotted at looks very similar to how mine look.  
 
You might want to stop reading at this point.  
 
It looks like the spacing at the nut is a little tight on the G side, but not way off.  So, I think what you probably want to do is get a long (3') straightedge and see if there's a problem with the straightness of the neck (gulp).  I think there might be a warp in the neck that's putting the headstock to the E side.  You can see in the pictures that the strings aren't running over the centers of the inlays either, another sign that something is seriously wrong.
 
If the neck has been refinished or feels assymetrical it's possible that the neck profile was shaved down too much, although it would be weird to shave a neck's width like this.  If somebody was trying to make the neck narrower, they would have to take it off the G side because of the markers on the E side.  
 
If the neck is warped like this, a fix is pretty complicated.  If you can tolerate narrowed spacing you can recut the saddles and either live with non-parallel runs to the tailpiece or get a new tailpiece made.  
 
I hope I'm wrong on this one.
 
David Fung

[cozmik_cowboy]

OK, the G-string isn't lined up, but how are the pasties? (ba-dum!)  
But seriously, folks, now that David says that, I'm noticing that the nut looks like it extends a tad past the G-string side of the fret board.  Here's hoing that's just a trick of the camera angle!
 
Peter

[David Houck]

Here's what Peter is looking at.
 

 
It might be the camera angle.  Hard to tell.  It looks like the camera angle was not exactly straight on.  Timothy, does it look like this in person?  Is the G end of the nut sticking out over the edge of the neck, or are both ends flush with the neck?

[artswork99]

You know the A, D and G slot (especially D and G) in the nut also look very wide and deep.
 
(Message edited by artswork99 on April 22, 2010)