Small Alembic Dealers - How do they do it?

[lidon2001]

With the untasteful post added to my BalK's Showcase thread, I was just wondering what other group members felt about this.  Rory wants to save thousands of dollars on his purchases, but Alembic has announced a second price increase in less than 365 days.  Are the mom and pop Alembic dealers just going to fade away with everyone going to Bass Central and Bass NW?  Does Alembic want this?  Are people so tight with money that they won't support their local dealer or the one that helped them through their formative years?  Am I crazy for trying to promote a smaller dealer that I have had great success with for 3 decades and therefore deserving of your mistrust and scowls?  
 
We all have heard about the Alembic instrument that sits around for years and the dealer then must let go for little to no profit.  Is that fair to dealer?  What incentive is there for smaller dealers to purchase instruments without buyers to help avoid this?  How many players are there in Kent, OH that are knocking at the door to buy an Alembic?  Am I wrong for pointing out to Adam that there are plenty of new stunning Alembics around at various dealers if he doesn't mind the standard spacings?  Am I wrong to say if you live in Kent, OH, check out and support your local dealer?
 
If you are all about money, which this capitalistic society we live in is all about - never for get that - then yes, the natural selection will take over and strong will overcome the weak, big sellers will cause the little sellers to fail (ever hear of Walmart?).  I try not to support Walmart and try to avoid shopping there.   I try to suppor my local shops because they, like me, are trying to eke out a living amidst larger corporations trying to take them out.
 
I opened the MARS store in Milwaukee when I worked for them, and was there for the closing also.  The local mom & pops survived this onslaught.  
 
I don't have the answers.  How do they do it?
 
(Message edited by lidon2001 on December 17, 2005)

[the_mule]

I respect you supporting a local dealer no matter what, but I also understand (and can really relate to) people who want to enjoy an Alembic or order their dream instrument who 'shop around'. Apparently it could save them lots of money. I personally am not even close to a position to purchase ANY new Alembic, and ordering a custom to my specs was, is and will be out of the question. A price increase of 21% in one year isn't something to be taken lightly. Although I love Alembic and believe them if they say it's necessary to uphold their standards, it literary means that a lot of people will possibly never be able to do what you did. Just a thought...
 
Wilfred
 
(Message edited by the_mule on December 17, 2005)

[rockbassist]

I live 25 miles south of Boston and I have never found a decent mom & pop store in the area. The employees at these stores have had little or no product knowledge and have attitudes. Here are some examples of things that I have been told in these stores. Gallien Krueger is out of business, You can only use Ampeg cabinets with an Ampeg head, Strap locks are a special order, and  Who is Alembic?. You get the idea. They also have a lot of crap in stock that I wouldn't even consider buying. I went into one store recently to purchase a set of strings. When the clerk rang them up I said you know, Guitar Center sells these for $10 less. I wasn't looking for a discount, I was just pointing out the difference in price. His response was Good, go to Guitar Center. I said, O.K. I will, He said you are going to drive 30 miles to save $10 on strings and I said No, I'm going to drive 30 miles so you won't have the satisfaction of taking my money. Believe it or not I have great luck at Guitar Center. I have gotten to know the assistant manager very well and he always takes care of me. I just wish I didn't have to drive 30 miles to get there. I wish there was a good locally owned music store but I've been playing for 30 years and the best family owned store that I have ever found is Caruso's in New London, CT, Unfortunately, it's almost a 2 hour drive.

[keith_h]

I think there are times just to let a subject drop and this subject is one of them. People buy the same items from many different places for all types of reasons. This is not a situation where one person is right or one person is wrong. All that continuing this conversation will do is generate bad feelings as each person tries to prove they're right. We have enough real problems that energy should not be wasted on this.  
 
I've said my piece and will now relinquish the soap box to gentleman across the isle.
 
Keith

[lbpesq]

I can see both positions.  If the difference is $50-$100, as referenced in Valentino's post, then it seems a little tight to play dealers off of each other.  If the difference is $1000, it makes more sense, though I suspect the $50-$100 difference is far more common than the $1000 difference in prices among different dealers.  
 
If I understand Tom's point correctly, he is not only concerned with the $, but also with, for lack of a better term, the Karma surrounding his bass and its purchase.  I can easily relate to this.  I will often pay a little more to help support local businesses competing with the giants.  I'd rather go to the one-store coffee shop than Starbucks, for example.  Finding a merchant with whom one can develop a long-standing relationship (like 30 years!) is a rarity in these times.  Such a relationship should be appreciated and not walked away from lightly.  There are undoubtedly some perks that go along with repeat business.  I suspect, for instance, that Tom has little worry about shipping.  His prior relationship probably makes him very comfortable in knowing that the bass will be packed and shipped first class and, if anything did go wrong, resolving the problem would be fairly simple.  IMHO cost is an important factor to consider, but not the only one.  Let's face it, if we can afford these instruments in the first place, $50-$100 isn't going to break us.
 
Bill, tgo

[dannobasso]

Money has and always been a touchy subject. I spend a boatload on gear because my obligations are to me. No wife , no kids, no pets. I often work 6 and 7 day weeks and no one ever hands me anything. I bought my 1st Alembic in 83 from Ash on 48th street. I was making about $4.00 an hour. I ordered my first custom in 85. I was making about $5.00 an hour. I tried using a local dealer in my town but he was unwilling to even try a discount. Mica referred me to Washington Music for my other purchases. And the purchases have continued with used at stores and from individuals as well as customs to as late as last week. I offered a guy $150 more than he was asking because I respected him and knew that a Rouge 5 in great condition with a case was worth more than $1600. Some dealers want to develop a customer base others wish to rape and run and wait for the next body to sell crap to. Whatever an individual wants to do with their money, don't judge them. Your morality is your morality. Does owning a Series 2 make one more of an authority? I own 13 Alembics but Rami owns many more. Does it count? Are we really supposed to care? Please just enjoy your instruments and allow those who have dreamt of theirs attain theirs on their terms if they can. This is why Mesa Boogie and others don't allow discounting on their products and they don't go on sale. A small amount of money might just make the difference in affordability for many folks these days. Why do you think all the major chains do no interest for a year or more? (the only reason I picked up a used Essense 5 from Ash). Less pain is less pain!
Danno

[j_gary]

Hi Tom, I feel your pain so to speak. I do understand Rory's thought process as money represents a limited commodity, our time. I have come to look at any exchange that causes me to lose money, as stealing the time it cost me to earn it. As such I do not enjoy wasting any.
 
That being said, when it comes to spending money on a love or passion, I find the process as enjoyable as the result. The Alembic experience in general has a lot to do with sharing the passion with likeminded souls. There are many fine $1000 basses around, but where do you find an environment like this? This place is full of people, builders & buyers & players and admirer's,that share a common love of finding or producing the perfect bass. We go on at length about the smallest detail with earnest and interest that would drive most players screaming into the hills. ( Hmmm...I think I hear screaming as I write )
 
Nowhere else can I read, learn and meet people as I have here. Because of the people and the resulting basses, I feel comfortable enough to ante up and become an Alembician. Folks pay dearly to join country clubs to play golf, or to drive a Ferrari. I believe they do so in an effort to meet and enjoy likeminded souls.
( And chicks, sorry gals)
 
As to your dealer concern Tom, I would think that the typical(?) Alembician would seek out a kindred spirit to purchase a bass from with price a secondary concern. It appears you did, and I know I did on my three Alembic purchases. All three came from this site, all three a pleasure to deal with. The basses were expensive, the experience, priceless. (more screaming)
 
I bought from California, drove to the middle of Indiana, and half way to Chicago from Detroit to purchase my Alembics. Right past a large store in Michigan that had Alembics sitting on display, and had little time for my relentless pursuit for information. I think any dealer who understands the Alembic audience, and is willing to work with it, will survive and thrive. The price shoppers will keep all honest and aware.

[ajdover]

It's obvious we all have our very deep rooted thoughts on this subject.  Like a lot of folks here, I too avoid chain stores, restaurants, etc.  They're too much the same to make any experience with them memorable.
 
As a cook, I believe food is more than just mere sustenance.  It is the sharing of an experience, of love (and yes, every time one cooks for another, it's all about love), of family, of friends.  When I cook for folks, I don't want them to say that was good; I want them to leave saying and thinking life is good.
 
Same goes for Alembics.  Regardless of how or through whom one acquires one of these fine instruments, the experience is the same - life is good.  
 
For me, I've bought two basses (one Alembic, one Pedulla) through Bass Central (my Entwistle replica Exploiter is on the way), my Dragon's Wing through Willies American Guitars in MN, and finally, my Essence through Conn-Signment Music in Raleigh, NC.  None of these stores are retail giants.  In all three cases these dealers had what I wanted and at a price I was able and willing to pay.  I got what I wanted, and life is good.  In the end, that's all matters.
 
I have purchased things from Guitar Centers over the years, but they've been few and far between.  Every time I've gone in there I knew that on average, the experience would be less than stellar.  That's OK though.  If one knows that going in, there are no false expectations created.  I don't expect, for example, that the average GC associate will know how a Q filter works on an Alembic.  I do expect they should know how the active electronics work on a Musicman Bongo.  If they know anything above that, well, that's a bonus.  
 
In the future, I will patronize small businesses at every opportunity.  It's due to my pursuit of unique life experiences rather than the mass produced, ordinary, it's-the'same-everywhereness we find in so many places these days.  The way I see it, I can buy a Fender just about anywhere, and they'll pretty much be the same.  I can't say that about Alembic, and for me, that makes the purchase of an Alembic worth the price, regardless of dealer.
 
My two cents,
 
Alan

[serialnumber12]

Let's remember, Alembic started out as a very small mom & pop guitar repair and modification shop in a san francisco alley (competing with major guitar makers)and took a gamble on producing their own guitars and almost did'nt survive,..but word got out that this 'small company' had some Goodshit,thus began orders for these things called alembics and here we are today!........so i say support the little man cause he's gotta eat too.

[matthijs]

If I might chime in as well. I can understand the thing about friendly neighbourhood music stores. I like to have some sort of relationship with the person who works in the music store I buy stuff from. However, when it comes to prices, there is simply not enough money in my bank account to justify buying something big (like an alembic) even 10% more expensive than need be. Being true to a friendly shopkeeper is alright if you have the extra money to do so, but if I have to save for some time to buy an instrument I will take any  discount I can get.
 
The thing with Alembics is, of course, that the prices are higher than the instrument is worth purely based on quality and sound. You pay for the name, which is not a bad thing by the way. But this means that for a working musician who wants that alembic tone any discount is simply a way to get the price more in concurrence with what it is actually worth as a tool.
 
This is why I will never (even if I have the money) buy a new Alembic because the price (for what it delivers as a musical tool) is simply too high. Thank god for Ebay  
 
(Message edited by matthijs on December 18, 2005)

[beelee]

I would prefer to deal with a small mom and pop music store or any other small business, but they are becoming less and less since SA and GC moved in, however, if I want a certain item or product and they don't have it, I have no choice but to go somewhere that does or go online to get it, if possible I like to try things out before I buy them (especially an instrument) but sometimes there are exceptions and I have taken a chance buying things on Ebay and have been extremely blessed and lucky and purchased some beautiful instruments that were new, in mint condition or very close to it. ( a Tobias Pre-Gibson Basic 6, Hamer B-12a, Michael Kelly Dragonfly 5, Conklin GT-7, Guild Ashbory (NOT DeArmond), Modulus Fretless 7 prototype, Zeta Crossover EUB, Alembic Exploiter w/ Factory Kahler Trem, Alembic Series I five w/ SII elect,  10 & 12 String Chapman Sticks and a Carvin Bass/Gtr doubleneck)  no stores in my area had ANY of these instruments for me to try or see with the exception of the Conklin GT-7, Alembic Exploiter, Guild Ashbory and Zeta. Being that I bought them out of state I did not have to pay sales tax, but shipping so I saved some $$$, I am not rich and if I can wheel and deal to save some bucks I'll do it. I also have 7 more basses,  4 which I purchased brand new, 1 from Manny's, 2 from GC, 1 from Superbass, the other 3, one was from a local ad (used), one from NJ Guitar & Bass Center (used) and the other from the Groove Shoppe (also used).
 
I just recieved my new Alembic a week ago, its unbelievable and over the top and after 25 years of playing its the first instrument I've ever had built for me.
 
I was lucky to buy it before the 15% price increase this year ( I NEVER thought I would EVER spend that much on an instrument, someone might think I'm NUTS, but you only live once and it was worth it) I used it at a show last night, it sounded and played Phenominal.
I may never buy another new one like it because I won't be able to afford it ( maybe ) and I have so many beautiful instruments already, I bought them not as a collector but to play them and have used all but 4 of them on many gigs.
 
Before ordering it I spoke to Val and got the October Specials at the last minute, and he advised me that they would send qoutes out to up to 3 dealers of my choice, so I  had them sent to Bass NW, Guitar Resurection and Superbass, I did not tell any of the Dealers about each other or discuss each one's quotes,  just waited for the emails to come back and went with the lowest one, which was from Steve Frank of Superbass
( THANKS Steve for the unbelievable deal on my dream bass !! )
plus again buying out of state NO SALES TAX, there is no way anyone could have given me the deal Steve did.  its funny the used Series I fiver I bought once belonged to Steve from Superbass and I didn't find that out till after I ordered my new Alembic from him,  that one was on Ebay and it either didn't make its reserve or no one bid on it at all, so I emailed the seller which was Ed Huggins from (Bass World ?)  and called Susan to inquire about the bass ( cause of the price, to verify the bass and cause I was buying it from someone I did not know site unseen)  I called Ed and he put Steve on the phone to answer any questions, ( years later I didn't remember talking to Steve that day) the bass came and it was most excellent !!  unfortunatly Ed and Steve are no longer in the Alembic dealer business.
 
enough of my babbling on.................
 
So support the little guy..........but you have to do what works best for you and what you can afford (after all it's YOUR money) , there's nothing wrong with shopping around for the best deal, saving some bucks ( we all could use to save some $) loyalty is good too, but if I go into any store and they have an attitude, are unhelpful and have no clue or can't help me, I have no choice but to go elsewhere as its in my best interest.
 
(Message edited by beelee on December 18, 2005)

[flaxattack]

ive only had 2 experiences with alembic dealers
nj guitar is a joke....
i placed my order for the direwolf with superbass- whos has retired.. steve is a one man boutique.. he didnt have the lowest price...
but i felt most comfy with him and he nursed me through the process and interceded only if i called him to speak with susan,
my tribute order went to beaver at bass central based on susans recommendation..i didnt even shop it...i spoke with beaver, felt good about it and that was that.
the best i can suggest.. as a salesman....
dont let $$$ make your final decision for you.
pick the best dealer who you feel or know will work for you
i paid more to steve and was glad i did..
 
when is a bargain a bargain???

[kilowatt]

I would love to always support the local guy ,but that is not always possible. I have to agree with Flax about NJ Guitar & Bass. When I started my custom 5 string, Susan sent my specs to several dealers and NJ Guitar & Bass never even responded! I spoke to the big 3 dealers, and although all helped my with my questions, I felt Beaver at Bass Central went above and beyond to earn my business. He was not the lowest price, and as many others have said before, $50 or $100 should not make the final decision. Comfort with the dealer should. Val told me my bass should finish calibration and be in my hand sometime around Christmas/New Years. I can't wait!!!  
Hope all have happy and healthy holidays and a new year!
 
Pete

[worldfamousandy]

When I bought my '76 Series 1 in '88, I was 19 years old.  I played the bass at a local music store, and instantly fell in love with it. I had no idea what it was.  I put it on lay-away, and paid the $1200 over 6 months.  That bass was purchased as an important tool for me.  Of course, I soon became aware of the rich legacy of Alembic.
 
I gig with my Alembic 3-4 times a week.  It sees smoky bars, outdoor wedding receptions, second-rate sit-in musicians, beer splash, cold drives in trailers, blood, sweat, and everything else a working axe may be exposed to.  In spite of it all, it plays and sounds great every time I pick it up.  That's why I have an Alembic.
 
Once a week or so, I clean it up, and it could be be a museum piece.  It's not going to be, though, because I can't resist playing it.  It's evolved into a virtual extension of my hands, and I am not interested in replacing it with anything less valuable (or more valuable, for that matter).  
 
The analogy between basses and cars is a good one for me, since I grew up near Detroit.  I feel like a working mechanic, with a passion for beautiful performers like Ferraris.  I work on them every day, but I'll never be able to buy a new one.
 
I've got an old one that's in good shape, though, and I drive it every day.  I drive because that's why I got it.  So long as I continue to to work in my chosen field, I will never make enough money to buy a new one.  That's fine with me, though, because I'd rather tinker with mine every day than change careers and buy a new one that would only get driven on weekends.
 
Someday, I'll get another used Alembic.  It will probably be another Series 1 four-string, but this one will be fretless.  I will probably buy it used, probably off of Ebay.  New Alembics are for people in a different situation than mine.  I don't disrespect anyone because they have greater means than I have (most of my clients fit that description), and I love to dream about what my custom bass would look like.  However, it's important for me to be realistic.  For me, trading basses will involve a deal between myself and another person.  I doubt GC or SA or the Mom and Pop store will be involved.

[rklisme]

Hey Guys
 
 It seems somehow in someway I am being accused of not shopping at little stores or not supporting local business. What I said is I shop for the best deal and the last I checked in America on planet Earth it was okay to do so. If I get the best deal from Joe Blow from Cocomo then that is cool with me. If I get the best deal from some superstore that is okay with me as well. I am not looking to put anyone out of business just find what works for me.
 A little story for you guys! When I was getting my second custom I contacted 4 stores, some based on the recomendations of others on this site. Let's call them store A,B,C and D. First I called store A which is local to me and got a quote on a certain instrument and thought I should be able to get a better price than this. I then called store B in Las Vegas and the price went up by about $100.00 or so. I then called store C who I had chatted breifly with before and who came highly recommended by a lot of you. Not only was he higher but he was much higher than store A because he was not offering the Cocobolo special which at the time was worth about $1000.00. Not only was this person rude and obnoxious but very unprofessional as well. After several e-mails from this child like person who I would not cross the street to spit on if I saw him on fire! I decided to call one more store,Store D. Store D, not only informed me of all price breaks they also talked to me about value so that I could make an informed decision. So had I gone with store C first the third store I called I would have gotten taken for $1000.00 more if I didn't know that Alembic offered monthly specials.  
 I hope this sheds some light on why shopping was good for me. I don't expect anyone to change the way they do business because I choose to look around for the best deal possible. I also understand and appreciate that you choose to conduct your business in a way that makes you feel good, however there is more than one way to do business and there is more than one way to feel good!
 The reasons that I didn't give store names is because the experience I had was obviously unique and I didn't feel like I needed to try make this business or person look bad. This situation was kept private not at the request of Susan but she applauded my decision to be a gentleman concerning the issue. I just took my business elsewhere! For the record we are talking a lot more than $50.00 to $100.00!