Speaker size: 10" vs 15"

[gare]

Chip
That rig sounds like great..the bag end stuff is nice.
Which wizard at Alembic did you consult with if we might ask.

[chip]

It was Ron Wickersham. I had asked the dangerous question, If you owned this bass, what amp would you buy?   Later I found out that he had co-invented technology behind the sub processor.  When I bought the gear it was called ELF for Extended Low Frequency.  If you're interested, you can go to www.bagend.com, click on tech library then legacy then click on guide to ELF for the 15 page version, or for the short version, click on ELF-1, scroll to the bottom and open About ELF.  
 
It's a pretty amazing and smooth sound, top to very bottom.

[gbarchus]

Chip,
 
Have you ever used the Bag End Q10BX-D as a stand alone (without the 18). I'm curious how it sounds by itself.
 
Gale

[s_wood]

After years of using an Eden rig consisting of a 210 XST and a 115XLT or a 410XST and a 118XLT depending upon the gig I have switched over to Accugroove stuff and I must say that I have never been happier with my tone.  These cabs really get it done, and my back loves the fact that they are very light weight.
 
I have a Tri112L that I use for rehearsals and light assault gigs....38 lbs and it will smoke any 2x10 out there.  I also have an El Whappo, Jr...2  12 drivers, a 6 mid driver and 2 tweeters.  It weighs 69 lbs (which is less than just about any  
4x10 or 2x15 cab) and it just blows them away.  When the El Whappo, Jr is combined with the 57 lb Tri 210 (which itself will blow away any 4 x 10) the volume produced by the stack is just sick...a felony in all 50 states.
 
These cabs have the best and cleanest bass      response (below 200hz) I have ever heard.  What I really like, though, is that to my ears the frequency response is quite flat, as compared to many cabs which by design have a hump around 200 Hz.  The problem with that is that many rooms produce standing waves in the same frequency range which, especially when coupled with the extra bass energy that can be created by the typical dive bar hollow stage, means that your pristine and clear Alembic tone will be sadly transformed into something like the sea of mud setting on a old EB-3 (remember those?)  Because the Accugrooves are so flat, I can spend my soundcheck time getting MY tone, instead of simply fighting the cabs and room to neutral.  Of course, in that regard the Accugroove design philosophy is just like Alembic's: let the player decide!  
 
Accugrooves: Check 'em out (YMMV, of course)
 
PS.  I am aware of the controversy over whether the impedence selector on Accugroove cabs (which they call the Accuswitch) is bogus or not. Who cares? The cabs sound fantastic, are very light in weight and I would have bought them in a second without the Accuswitch.

[chip]

Gale:
 
Yes I have, in two situations:
1. In a small or quiet venue (like a church service) where they just don't seem to appreciate that low B, or  
2. Where your gig employs a FOH sound system that has subs.  It apparently drives sound guys nuts because, and I don't understand the physics here, but the waves down there at that level must be additive because they can't get a stable volume level and you get low freq. feedback. So, what usually happens is an SM57 on one of the 10's and a DI so's to not interfere with the FOH mix.
 
But in a smaller club/bar setting, I love the full sound with the 10's and the 18.  
 
Anyway, the Q10 still sounds great by itself-- very clear and precise at any volume level, which is what I was going for. The co-ax lets the high-end harmonic beauty of the Alembic electronics poke through.  (You just don't get that low feel without the 18 (...unless there's a PA sub.)  
 
Hope I answered the question.
Chip

[gbarchus]

Thanks Chip,
 
You did!
 
Gale

[dfung60]

I was fortunate to see Sir Paul McCartney's performance in San Jose, CA last night.  It was really a great show (my wife got the tickets through an associate at work, so had I had to cough up the $500 for a pair it might have been harder for me to say that).  In a world where American Idol will make you a superstar (not!) it's amazing to see somebody whose so talented that superstar doesn't seem to be quite enough.  
 
Well, the reason that this posting is in this thread is of course because of his stage bass amp.  He played his Hofner bass about 60% of the show with a long acoustic guitar set, some piano, and even a couple of songs on electric guitar.  There was a long row of stage amps across the back so it's a little hard to tell exactly who was playing what (there was a guitarist, another guitarist who switched off on bass, the keyboards/musical director, and Abe Laborial, Jr. on drums who looks like Donkey Kong when he's playing).  
 
Sir Paul's main bass rig looked to be a pair of Mesa Boogie Bass 400+ amps.  The stage speakers were a pair of Boogie bass cabinets, one with 2-15s and the other with 1-15 on the bottom half and 4-10 on the top half.  These were the older Boogie RoadReady cabinets which they made for many years but are not like the current ones (black grilles instead of chrome).  I think the combo cabinet must have been custom made, as I don't remember ever seeing that configuration before.  That's the advantage of being Paul, I guess.
 
There was also a large double Vox rig next to that with large cabinets but the speakers were not visible through the cloth (this may have been a guitar amp).  There was also a double Ashdown setup that looked to be a 15 and some 10s.  
 
Sound was great, but had nothing to do with the stage rigs I'm sure.  The venue (HP Pavillion) is notorious for really poor concert sound but this wasn't bad at all.  Paul is a fantastic bass player, which is all the more impressive when he's simultaneously being a fantastic vocalist on top of that.
 
The light show and stage design was just amazing, really superior to anything I've seen before. There was a wall of video displays across the back of the stage that wrapped down under their feet and covered the entire stage floor.  Above that there was an even larger wall that had a bank of spotlights, projectors, and rollaway screens.  They would have a light show on the screens or would pull them back to create an effect like an uncurtained theater stage.  Really cool.

[vladpire]

hey lidon2001, I saw that you posted a while back wanting some information on suntech guitars. If your interested, I have some info, as well as a never played N.O.S. suntech neck through strat. give me a holler @ Vladpire@mchsi.com, if you want. Thanks.

[lidon2001]

Hi Donovan,
 
Thanks for the info.  I will be contacting you.
 
Now this is strange.  My friend from high school days who owns the only other Suntech I know tragically passed away on Sunday.  The best guitarist I've ever played with is no longer on this planet. And then this message comes to me in a faraway message forum that I luckily happen to watch.  If anyone has any doubts about an afterlife, kharma, etc., please put them to rest.  See it before your eyes.
 
Tom
 
(Message edited by lidon2001 on November 10, 2005)

[lidon2001]

OK, I take that back.  The best I've played with is Jon Weber.  Gary was second best...  Sorry Jon!
 
 
Tom

[serialnumber12]

I personally like to feel my bass,so ive been using 15s since the 70s.

[gbarchus]

Not all 15 speakers are the same, or any size for that matter. As I said in an earlier post, I favor JBL 15s and 12s with their 4 voice coils, especially the 60 watt D 140s with alnico magnets. As amplifiers gained in power over the years (I started playing bass with a Fender Showman, 85 watts, and a single 15 JBL D 130 guitar speaker), so speakers needed to be able to handle the power. In the process, they gave up sensitivity.  
 
The most rumble I have ever experienced was with two 8X10 SVT cabinets and I am told they cannot reproduce the fundamental 42 Hz E string. The 10s in those cabinets are not very expensive either, stamped frames and 2 voice coils. The most midrange sound came from an Acoustic 360 with 2 folded horn 18 cabinets.  
 
From my experience, it's not the size of the speaker that correlates to the amount of bass. Speaker sensitivity and cabinet design are more critical.

[mpisanek]

Here's my $0.02 for you to laugh at.
 
I used to believe that size matters (in speakers) up until recently.  In the past I used SWR 18 speakers for most of the time.  Recently, I updated my rig and bought 2 Eden 2X10 XST cabinets.  The sound they produce is incredible!  The frequency range of the cabinet is amazing.  Many people have commented on the amount of bottom end that these speakers can produce.  
 
I think that the old stereotype of saying that bigger is better is going by the wayside.  With the advent of new speaker materials, new drivers, and new cabinet designs, it will come down to a matter of personal taste in terms of the sound you would like to produce.  All of the major bass speaker manufacturers produce reasonable quality gear, but it comes down to purely personal taste as to whether you like one 10 speaker cabinet sound, or you prefer another 15 speaker cabinet sound.

[jacko]

I can vouch for the roundness of Mikes bottom end ;-)
Seriously though, borrowing his edens to use with my Eden navigator/qsc plx2402 has made me give serious thought as to which speakers to go with. Hopefully there'll be opportunities to audition various sizes at this Sundays Bass Day.
 
Graeme

[cosmic]

I used to be a 15 inch sorta guy until I tried Eden's stuff. Now I swear by their 10inch cabinets. They are full range and give you plenty of low end thump as well as a strong mid range and as much top end sparkle as you want.
 
I find these newer 10's punch through the mix way better than andy 15 I have ever tried.