Extended Range Basses

[the_8_string_king]

Jordan, just to be clear, I don't care what you get, and honestly hope that you're happy with what you get.  I have absolutely no vested interest in persuading you to get anything.
 
However, philosophically, I'm a proponent of truth and objectivity, and while beauty and preference are, of course, in the eye of the beholder... there is a truth here.
 
Alembics are the best; they're far superior to anything else (that I know of, at least).  I don't say this because I like them; I like them because it is true.
 
No one else comes even close to having Alembics' experience.  They are renowned for -among other things- having the very finest electronics, the very finest and most experienced craftsmen, and using the finest materials according to uncomprimising principles.
 
There's a lot of nice basses out there.  But I don't know of any even close to Alembics; if you do, please let me know, because I'd be VERY interested in considering a custom from ANY company that can make a bass of similar quality for less.  I WOULD BUY SUCH A BASS IN A HEARTBEAT.  So please, let me know, if there is such a bass and such a company.
 
But -no disrespect intended- it has been my experience that the ONLY people who don't recognize Alembic as the best are those who haven't seen, heard, and played them.  They're FAR superior to anything else.  I just don't know of ANY instrument makers that CAN or do make instruments of similar quality... for any amount of money.
 
I respect Conklin instruments, and I think they're a great company.  They make some really cool instruments, and I respect their accomplishments and contributions... but they are NOT Alembic... they're not in the same class.  They're not even close.
 
Nothing sounds as clear, clean, and natural as an Alembic.  And no other instrument I've ever heard plays any better.
 
They are definitely expensive; and there are definitely plenty of FINE instruments out there which are a LOT less expensive; many Alembic owners -like myself, to be sure- wait decades and save for years (like myself, again) to get one.  We do it because we want the very best -and that's what they are.
 
By all means, get what you want.  If less expensive is your greatest priority, then you almost definitely DON'T want an Alembic... it just won't fit the bill.  (Although patient and savvy buyers can sometimes score some good deals on the used market, and there's a lot of good stuff out there.   (Of course, there likely aren't many used extended range Alembics out there...)
 
But your comment about knock offs indicates that you really aren't familiar with Alembic, their instruments, and their quality and performance; no one who is would ever be able to make such a statement with a straight face.
 
By all means, get what you want, and what you like.  If lower cost is your greater priority, go for it, there's nothing wrong with that.  But try to play an Alembic sometime, when you get a chance, just so you have the benefit of the experience, so you can form your own conclusion.
 
And Conklin makes a great bass, although they're at least 2 points down from Alembic, on a 1-10 scale.  But they're good instruments, and relatively high quality, for sure.
 
And PLEASE... -I'm serious here- let me know if you do indeed know of anyone who can make a bass of similar quality for substantially less.  I might become their customer.  I'd be VERY interested in knowing of anyone who could make an instrument of similar quality, period.  I don't know of any such maker, period.
 
I've seen SOME (older) Spectors and SOME Ken Smith basses that seem close... and a couple individual basses (Koonitz and Pedullas) that were close... but by and large, I'm not aware of any other instrument maker that can CONSISTENTLY produce instruments of similar or near-similar quality.
 
As I'm certainly NOT prepared to claim to know everything, nor what you do, I realize that you certainly know things I don't do, and possibly know things about instrument-makers that I don't.
 
So I would be most grateful to know of anyone who could make similar instruments for less money.  And if you respond, I'll check 'em out.
 
But... I don't want to sound sarcastic -and I'm not- I won't hold my breath.
 
Good luck getting the bass you want!  If you're so inclined, I'd love to see what you get when you get it!  You can get my e-mail address by clicking my member name -to the left of the post, upper left-hand corner.

[hydrargyrum]

I certainly don't want to get into an argument about the quality of Alembic instruments, as they are certainly remarkable.  But it is pretty hard to say that one manufacturer is the ultimate builder.  I can think of a few things someone might perceive as detriments.  For instance, I don't care for active electronics in a guitar, and Alembic doesn't build guitars without them as they have decided this is the optimal configuration.  Another issue someone might raise is that the instruments are built by a team of people, rather than a single craftsman.  People will undoubtedly argue that working as team contributes to the overall quality of an instrument, by allowing people to work at their specialty, rather than trying to be a jack of all trades.  However, there is also a point to be made that there is a certain character imparted to an instrument which has been shaped by a single person's vision, not to mention that the ultimate end of having a team working on a project is the dreaded fate of mass production (but certainly not an evil I would accuse alembic of by any means).  I also tend to be believe that Alembic has set their custom options at a level that is intended to regulate production, rather than as a true reflection of the associated cost.  As an example, when I had my guitar built by Roger Giffin, I asked for a number of custom options; an ebony laminate in the neck, wood control covers and knobs, custom scale length and neck width.  I paid about $300 for these upgrades, and without looking, I can guess that this would have been significantly more through Alembic.  
 
My personal opinion is that Alembic's pricing is reasonable.  However, this is not because I believe making a top notch instrument necessarily costs as much as Alembic asks.  I do believe that this is what is necessary for Alembic to make a top notch instrument. I have to believe that Alembic sets its prices to suit the market demand, and to place their prices any lower would cause them to be swamped with orders that would ultimately cause an increase in production, and a downturn in quality. If Alembic were to suddenly find itself without a long waiting list for instruments, one would reasonably expect their prices to drop.  However, as things currently stand, one can argue that these prices are necessary for Alembic to maintain the integrity of their instruments.
 
Ultimately, arguing that one high end custom instrument is better than another is like arguing that one genre of music is better than another.  It all comes down to the eye of the beholder. All that having been said, my Giffin never sounds sweeter than when it is being subtlely caressed by my SF-2, so I would like to think I am getting the best of two worlds.
 
I hope this doesn't step on anyone's toes, but I truly believe Alembic's pricing is more related to market forces than any other factor such as materials costs.  Sure I could go out and buy a bunch of wood of similar quality for much lower prices than ordering it from Alembic, but at the end of the day I would probably end up with something that sounded like carboard and looked like roadkill.

[xlrogue6]

I've played a lot of basses over my 30 years as a bass player, and worked on a lot more.  I can say without reservation that few, if any match Alembic's build quality and attention to detail on every single bass they make.  (Full disclosure: I worked at Alembic for a year a while back--while Mark's bass was built, as a matter of fact.  Seeing the QC on a day to day basis was a real education.)  Additionally, Alembic is the only company I know of that designs and fabricates their own hardware, electronics, and pickups.  Their prices seem to me to be very similar to other high end US builders of neck through instruments--checked prices on Foderas, custom Conklins, etc. lately?  Sure you can spend well over 10K on a Series--but a Series is arguably in a class by itself.  Rogues and Europas, IMO, are most comparable to the top of the line of other high end builders.  I didn't understand this either until I played my first Alembic, an Epic 5 string--that bass changed my life!  Within 2 years of getting that bass, my collection of 10 electric basses was down to 2 Alembics--one fretted, one fretless.  Over the years I've moved from 5 strings to 6, and from Epics and Orions to Rogues. (OK, I do own a Dean 8 string for those rare occasions when I just gotta have those doubled strings--that's not often enough to justify getting an Alembic 8(yet!).)  I love basses--I'm always checking out new stuff.  Many of the instruments I've checked out have been very cool in their own way--but none of them do anything my Alembics can't do, and none of them can quite do all the things the Alembics do.  I agree with Mark--I've seen some isolated examples of great instruments from several high end builders--but I've also seen very so-so work from the same guys. YMMV, of course--that's what makes the world go around!  Good luck on your quest.

[keurosix]

Jordon,
You did not give us a lot of information. How many strings are you looking for? An extended range bass can be any bass with more than 4 strings. If you want a 5 or 6 string bass, there is no limit to manufacturers. However, if you want a 7 string bass or larger, than you want a custom-made guitar from a specialty manufacturer. You said you did not want an import, so you have limited your preference to U.S. companies. A 7-string custom US made guitar will put you in a Boutique category with a reasonably high price tag. While there are many young guitar makers out there who can fit the bill, I do not know of any that can share the history of guitar making like Alembic. Alembic was the first company to put their own high quality active electronics in guitars before anyone else. When they started to produce their own guitars they manufactured everything on the guitar except for the tuning pegs. They still do this today. They take pride in their work, and it is evident in every aspect. If you compare other Boutique guitars to Alembic, yes, you will find less expensive ones. I doubt that you will find any that have their own electronics too. You will find quite a few with Bartolini pickups and  electronics. While this sound is very good ? and it might be the exact sound you are looking for ? you owe it to yourself to compare it to the Alembic sound. I own a Modulus Graphite 5 string Quantum TBX neck-thru bass. It came with 3 Bartolini pickups and a Bartolini preamp. It sounded great with new strings. As soon as the strings died, so did the sound. The Bartolini?s are very string-dependant for the final sound ? rather a passive sounding active circuit. I replaced the electronics with a special Alembic Activator circuit, and now I do not need to be concerned with string life. The Alembic electronics are so lively that I can compensate for dead strings with a nudge of one knob. This guitar has so many sounds that there is no musical style I can think of where this bass will not fit like a glove. You mentioned that you did not want an Alembic because it is a ?knockoff thunderbird or explorer?. ?Knockoff? is one word that cannot describe Alembic. They were the first high-end electric guitar manufacturer, and today any boutique builder would be following their lead. Yes, there are explorer and thunderbird style Alembic basses out there. The fact is that customers come to Alembic and order custom instruments to their liking and Alembic makes them. These styles became very popular, and are still being produced today. Maybe you can find a Boutique bass at a very low price that will make you happy. We would like to know what you finally end up with. Have you looked into Roscoe, Elrick, or M Basses? Try www.extendedrangebassist.com.
They frequently list new manufacturers who make ERB?s.  
Kris

[keith_h]

No use asking Jordan questions he deleted his id.  
 
Keith

[Bradley Young]

Maybe Jordon had a class, and he was experimenting with the dynamics of Internet social settings.
 
?
 
Bradley

[pace]

Too bad he left, I have a Conklin Nuwave 6er I'm going to get rid of soon... fer cheap!  
 
Just doesnt compare to my Essence 6...

[keurosix]

Adriaan,
In all fairness, I agree that price does matter. It should not be the MOST important or ONLY determining factor. My Europa 6 string is standard except for an upgraded top to AAAAA Quilted Maple. My Epic is standard. I chose to modify it with the AE-2 Filter. Alembic as WE all know makes a Standard guitar far better than most other manufacturers Standards. I'm not even talking about the customs. Jordon had a negative perspective from the get-go.

[adriaan]

Kris,
 
As much as price should NOT be a determining factor, it does throw up a threshold. I don't believe the prices are so high to discourage people from ordering one - it just takes more money to keep a small business running than a large business.

[ampeglb100]

I love my Alembics, but I still love my other basses as well.  Both of my Alembic's cost many times that of my other basses - but that doesn't change the fact that my other basses feel and sound like balsa-wood toys compared to my Alembics.
 
Andy

[xlrogue6]

No use asking Jordan questions he deleted his id.
Maybe Jordon had a class, and he was experimenting with the dynamics of Internet social settings.
 
Or maybe he collapsed from information overload...we do tend to go on about our Alembics, don't we?

[hifiguy]

Having knocked around the high end audio scene for more than fifteen years, the last ten as a reviewer of some ridiculously expensive gear, I'm no stranger to price/value debates.
 
With custom instruments it's always Alembic that's held up by the doubters as a symbol of wretched excess and in audio it's Wilson Audio Specialties loudspeakers.  My lengthy experience with both Alembic and Wilson products has only come to convince me that both are priced with remarkable restraint as I have learned more about the effort and care that goes into them.
 
As a first point, there are few if any economies of scale for manufacturers of small numbers of incredibly labor-intensive products.  This is exacerbated when the materials used are exotic, scarce and difficult to work with.  Alembic uses primarily exotic woods; Wilson Audio uses proprietary mineral filled polymers and specially made laminates in the cabinets of their loudspeakers.  This means that the end products will be expensive by definition.
 
Secondly, the level of workmanship, fastidious attention to detail and sheer perfectionism that goes into a Wilson Audio or Alembic product has to be seen, touched, heard, and experienced.  While there are other fine products out there, in all areas of endeavor there is usually a recognized best of the best: the Bosendorfer piano, the Ferrari sports car, the Rolex watch, the Dunhill pipe.  IMHO, the Alembic bass and Wilson loudspeaker are in the same club.  Their excellence is bred in from the bones out, not added on to a competent but somewhat ordinary core.
 
Another thing that sets Alembic apart from the other boutique manufacturers (apart from Roger Sadowsky - he is pursuing his own unique vision) is that they were the _first_ to do it.  No one had ever done the sorts of things Ron Wickersham did with musical instrument electronics.  His designs were so ahead of the curve that they remain so thirty five years later.  No one had built basses in exotic shapes out of eye-poppingly gorgeous combinations of woods before Alembic.  If you want to the real custom thang go to the place where it was all invented.  The Johnny come latelies will never be able to exceed the original innovators.
 
Pedullas, MTDs, Foderas, et al - yeah they are all nice enough but they fall short in the electronics department for me - I have always thought Bartolinis sound rather cold and inorganic where Ron's electronics maintain the woody and holistic quality that a great electric bass guitar should have.  
 
As for other basses, I own three besides my cherished Stanley Sig Std - a couple of FOJ Jazzes and a Warwick Corvette ProLine.  The fretted Tokai-made Jazz and the Warwick are nice basses that I enjoy playing but they both do one basic thing with the main available tonal variation being more or less treble output.  My Alembic can do all of the things those basses can do and so much more that it boggles the imagination.  My Alembic communicates with me almost as if it's imbued with a spirit of its own (and in a way it is) where my other bases are well-made tools for making music.
 
Nearly 16 grand is what it takes to buy a basic Series II.  A pair of Wilson Audio MAXX 2s is $48,900.  Unfortuately, that's what it takes to buy that kind of performance, and it simply ain't available anywhere else. Interestingly, Wilson is rumored to operate on the tightest margins in the loudspeaker business.  Yet the demand for their products is so great that they are always back ordered for months and have had to expand their factory twice in the last three years or so.  I suspect that Alembic is also on a considerably thinner margin than the likes of Fender or Gibson yet they, like Wilson, see demand that is consistently greater than supply.  Like the Supremes sang, you can't hurry love and both Alembic and Wilson pour love of music and craftsmanship into their remarkable products.  They are not bargains, they are something better - they are worth every last penny of their princely  retail prices.  About how many consumer products can that be said with a straight face?
 
When it comes down to what counts the most, only an Alembic is an Alembic.  There are no substitutes
 
Paul

[57basstra]

yeah!

[the_8_string_king]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[jsaylor]

You guys took what I was saying out of context. Of course Alembics are nice, althou I havn't played one, they have a good rep. However, I think companys should make their own designs instead of making copys, or as I like to call it knock offs, of other companys designs. We see it all the time with Fenders, and in Alembics case, Gibsons. Custom or not, its unoriginal. Unoriginality doesn't mean their bad, just unoriginal. Didn't mean to stur up a fight, its almost as bad and telling an atheist about Christ, they start to flip out on you. Just getting things streight.