Author Topic: Extended Range Basses  (Read 400 times)

hifiguy

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« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2006, 08:09:45 PM »
Point taken, but the knockoff designs that Alembic has made over the years have been specifically at the request of customers.  To wit, it was the late great John Entwistle who commissioned the first Explorer-style basses.  It was popular enough with Alembic Nation that the Exploiter was put in the catalog of optional shapes.
 
The double cutaway Les Paul shape is echoed in the Skylark, but the Skylark's proportions are different.  It's a basic, elegant, proven shape that guitarists have admired for generations.  
 
For sheer Alembic originality, check out the Balance K bass and the Little Darling guitar - kissin' cousins shapewise and two of the most drop dead gorgeous instrument designs I've seen in 35 years of playing.
 
Cheers
 
Paul

lidon2001

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« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2006, 08:25:58 PM »
If one of the most famous rock bassists asks a company to build an instrument, and his fans then want the same bass, a company would not be maximizing its profit potential if it did not pursue such avenues regardless of body style.  
 
The Alembird is not Alembic's vision of a bass.  It's one of their customer's ultimate combination of form and function(has anyone seen Alembird #2?).  One could pretty much assume Gibson could sue Alembic for unlicensed use, but they don't and can't since Alembic can make a one off custom instrument for anyone in any body style their customer might choose.  That's not copying or being unoriginal.  That's customer service and their own never ending quest for perfection.  
 
It seems you dismiss the innovations and instruments that actually created the Alembic tradition, such as the large and small standard point shapes, Jerry's guitars, rack mount preamps, active electronics along with the use of filters, and the modern 5 string bass to name but a few.  So who is copying who?
 
Does that help set things straight?
 
T
2005 MK Deluxe SSB, 2006 Custom Amboyna Essence MSB, Commissioned Featured Custom Pele

57basstra

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« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2006, 08:32:44 PM »
A lively discussion on various musical instruments - on a website hosted by a specific company - should not be compared to witnessing about Jesus Christ. I think you know that is true. I also think you are trying to 'stur up a fight.'
 
David

lidon2001

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« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2006, 09:08:39 PM »
A couple other points to ponder.
 
Check out this COTM, Nov 2002 Autumn's Delight:  http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_rod.html .  Susan wouldn't make a copy, it had to be Alembicized.
 
The Alembird's owner is a VERY good customer with multiple Series instrument purchases.  He had asked Susan to build this bass for years as stated in the COTM page for this bass.  Susan must have said No initially.  It's not difficult to understand that Susan would build such a bass to celebrate their wonderful business relationship and personal friendship after so many years.
 
And JE, of course, is JE.
 
That's the context these copied instruments should be viewed in.
 
T
2005 MK Deluxe SSB, 2006 Custom Amboyna Essence MSB, Commissioned Featured Custom Pele

the_8_string_king

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« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2006, 09:11:05 PM »
Alembic is nearly synonymous with originality (and/or innovation.)
 
In virtually every respect.  At least when it comes to musical instruments.
 
But just to be clear here, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of their instruments shapes are original.  Like the newer Balance K and Darling instruments, but also the original Series instruments, the Scorpion, the Triple Omega, the Europa and Spectrum instruments, the Elan, the Spoilers, the Further, the Skylark.
 
Referring to the VERY SMALL percentage of Alembics that are copies of other instruments bodies, and then using that as some stepping stone to form the generalization or charactorization that Alembic is a company that produces knock-offs (while true) would be silly.
 
I'd love to hear of ANY other company that comes close to the LONG LIST of original body shapes -awesome, wonderful, innovative, beautiful and functional body shapes Alembic has in their repertoire.
 
Also, there's a significant logical error here -which may be lost on those ignorant of Alembics.  The whole essence of Alembic instruments is originality and innovation, and the form and substance of an Alembic is originality and innovation manifested in physical form.  To form a conclusion to the contrary based on form alone is to confess one's lack of understanding of the subject matter.
 
To be blunt, Jordon, the unoriginal comment is just too silly for me or anyone who knows Alembic to take seriously.
 
And it does seem perhaps like there is some negativity in your perceived demeanor.
 
You lost me with the boogie man comment, but it does seem intentionally inflamatory.
 
If this is not your intention, perhaps an alternate approach would better convey your meaning.
 
(Message edited by the 8 string king on November 01, 2006)
 
(Message edited by the 8 string king on November 01, 2006)

jsaylor

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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2006, 01:48:27 PM »
No im not trying to stur anything up, but I quit trying, its pointless. Hope you all enjoy your instruments.

keurosix

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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2006, 04:43:37 PM »
Welcome back Jordon? Goodbye?
Glad to see that you are a man and can take our criticism. Thanks for admitting that you never played an Alembic. I must reiterate: until you actually play one through an amp, you won?t appreciate it fully. In my 30+ years as a bassist, I have owned and played a lot of different brands in the search for ?my sound? - from cheap to boutique! If you are concerned with build quality only, then there are numerous brands out there that will satisfy you. A boutique-built guitar feels great in the hands and can stretch your creative talent. But the true test of the guitar is how it sounds through the amp. This is where Alembic electronics shine! Imagine one guitar sounding like all the rest, and more! That is what you can expect with Alembic. It has to be experienced! There are a lot of beautiful guitars out there, and they feel fantastic in your hands. But if they only sound mediocre through the amp, what?s the point? To spend a couple grand on something that does not deliver is a couple grand that could have gone to an Alembic that will satisfy. Yes, you can add Alembic electronics to another guitar, or for under a grand get an SF2 super filter for ultimate tone shaping. But the synergy of the total Alembic package - Wood, build quality, electronics, their artistry and experience - is much greater than the sum of the parts. It?s what keeps me obsessed about their guitars. Have you found an ERB to your liking? We would like to know when you do.  
Hello, Hello?... Hmmm... It appears that He's no longer here again! Bye bye!

57basstra

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« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2006, 07:44:29 AM »
Jordan. Just in case you are still around: no one expects you to agree with everything everyone says here. I don't agree with everything everyone says here and certainly everyone does not always agree with me. I can tell you the Alembic Club members are dedicated to these instruments Discussions do get 'lively' and even more so when other instruments and makers are introduced. That is a big part of the fun. Come on back! You comments, questions and criticisms are just as valid as anyone here. ....It is not life and death (or eternal life and death)...

jsaylor

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« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2006, 04:36:46 PM »
Wow kindness, I think Ill stay this time.
Even If I decide on an Extended Alembic, it'll be a very long time before I could afford one. My Main concern is, can Alembic make a very nice ERB? I know they make nice 4-6 strings, and I saw that picture of the 8, but they don't build them that often. Im also looking at some Ken Lawrences. Main thing that concerns me is experiance in that area. Also, I don't know if any of you guys know who he is, but I really like the epic solo work Jean Baudin does. He plays most of his stuff on his Ken Lawrence (althou he does own an Alembic). I really like the sound of his bass in the song Transcend.

811952

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« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2006, 05:47:54 PM »
Alembic can and will build anything you want, pretty much exactly the way you want it.  That said, if you were to simply order an extended range bass it would be somewhat of a crap-shoot, because your expectations may well be radically different from the people designing the thing.  If you approach Mica, Val, Susan or Ron with a reasonably complete set of criteria, then they will build something to match.  If you then let them bounce ideas back and forth (with you and each other) you will likely discover a few things you hadn't thought of before and have those incorporated.  The instrument would essentially be YOUR unique signature instrument, as mine is essentially MY unique signature instrument.  Read through the Factory to Customer threads to get an idea of just how organic the process can be, and of the awesome depth of knowledge the folks at Alembic share and draw upon.  I do think, though, that since each instrument is so unique that it's perhaps a bit dangerous to commission a work before you're really certain what you want, because however far from left-field something may be they will build it into a massively elegant musical instrument.
 
And welcome to the club!
 
John

keurosix

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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2006, 06:32:21 PM »
Welcome back Jordon!
I think that Alembic could build exactly what you want. A custom can get pricey, but it will be to your ultimate specifications. I copied some interesting links for you here.  
http://www.alembic.com/family/history.html
This one details Alembic's history which should show you that they have been at it for quite a while, and should put your mind to rest about being qualified to build a custom ERB.
 
Here are some more custom examples:
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_sixsen.html
 
http://www.alembic.com/info/FC_stealth.html
 
Here is the price list for the guitar lines:
http://www.alembic.com/prod/prices.html
 
And here are some links to Ken Lawrence basses. They look beautiful. I think for an ERB you are in the $4000. and up price range.
 
http://www.luthiersaccessgroup.com/islawrence4.html
 
http://www.accessbass.com/KenLawrenceUnity.html
 
http://www.luthiersaccessgroup.com/lawrence.html
 
How many strings are you thinking about? Fretless or fretted? # of frets? Scale length? You can also open a thread in the dreaming... For now section of the club to see who can help you narrow your choices. Good Luck in your quest.
Kris

the_8_string_king

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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2006, 08:29:48 PM »
Like Kris sez, it's cool that you take criticism and respond like a civilized man, so I take you at your word, and also would also echo David's comments.
 
And I also hope you enjoy your instruments.
 
And I'd like to hear what you're planning, and end up getting.
 
I actually thought about/considered getting as many as 10 strings (F#-Eb) with 40 frets!!!
 
It would have been interesting, but I'm very glad I got what I did.  I think the range of a B-F 7-string with a 3-octave neck is perfect... for me, I'm completely satisfied with that range.
 
I've played a nice custom 7-string with a 24 fret neck made by a guy named... I think it's Michael Koonzt or something like that... and also a Sidewinder and another bolt-on Conklin.
 
The Koonzt was really awesome -both playing and sounding- but I've never seen any others and have no other frame of reference about them in general.
 
The bolt-on didn't impress me at all as anything special other than the 7 strings, and I think 28? frets, if I recall correctly.
 
The Sidewinder was pretty nice overall, but again didn't strike me as anything special in the sound department.  This isn't a put-down.  It was a nice instrument which was easily superior to a long list of other less instruments... it just didn't strike me as anything special soundwise.  But it was well-designed and constructed, and it played well and sounded well, certainly adequately or better.  And of course it was only one instrument.
 
Good luck with whatever you choose, and, should you be so inclined, I'd like to hear what it is.
 
To echo what John said, Alembic can make whatever you want.  If you know exactly what you want, they can make it happen.  Again -as John said- they have great experience and can likely offer you some ideas you might really dig and not even be aware of.
 
The thing is, WHATEVER you want... they can do it, and to be blunt, they'll do it better than anyone.  But, it'll probably (almost certainly) cost more.  But, as you yourself have observed, they're most capable of duplicating specific features that people want.
 
A lot of people don't know some basic -but significant- knowledge about Alembic that club members take for granted.
 
We take it for granted, but it's worth mentioning occaissionally -for the benefit of those who do/may not know.
 
When you get a quote from Alembic on a neck-thru, you get a pretty significant range of CUSTOM options included in the quote at NO EXTRA CHARGE.  Basic things of significance in this context include custom fingerboard dimensions within a flexible range of specs, usually a half-dozen or more attractive standard wood choices, no charge for fretless or lefty, and the ability to often swap (some) body shapes, and also choose the body woods (I think some options do have upcharges).
 
That's a LOT of pretty significant options for no extra cost.
 
These are built-in to the quote.
 
I don't think the custom quote offers 7 or more strings, or more than 24 frets as options (although I could be wrong).
 
But if you were to say, get a quote for a six-string Essence, and then just have 'em tell you how much more for however many additional strings and frets you might want... be aware that they would make the instrument with the scale length and fingerboard dimensions of your choice (extra long and other extremes are extra, I think), and also offer you several choices and combinations of attractive and functional woods at no extra cost.
 
If you were to get a 7 string essence with an extended fingerboard and only one pickup, it probably would actually be fairly competitive pricewise to anything else you're likely to find, and far more satisfying.
 
In any case, best wishes, and I'd like to hear what you choose.

jsaylor

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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2006, 12:34:20 PM »
I didn't realize the price included other options as no charge. I wouldn't say they can build better than anyone else, because thats kind of an ignorant assumption. Either way on what I choose, It won't be for along time. However, Ken Lawrence gets extra points in my book because hes a bass player, and focuses on basses, although he does do some guitars. Anyway thanks for the help.

jsaylor

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« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2006, 07:29:25 PM »
+500 for Alembic. I just read on Wikipedia that Alembic does not endorse any players. I have been looking for a company like that. When im going to buy a high-end instrument, its going to be an Alembic. Thanks again for the help.

dannobasso

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« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2006, 08:53:02 PM »
They built me a Spoiler 7 lined fretless in cocobolo with ph lams, crown headstock.