Author Topic: Alembic Value  (Read 1291 times)

jseitang

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Alembic Value
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2007, 05:48:17 PM »
comparing vintage fenders and alembics now is like comparing a 55 corvette and a new mercedes benz. its apples and oranges.

dannobasso

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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2007, 06:19:39 PM »
Can't you eat both? Not the cars certainly.

mica

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« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2007, 06:30:26 PM »
Why do we sell at the published price from the factory? Because some customers insist on it, and we are about custom. Every person that wants to buy direct, I try to introduce to a dealer so they can get not only a better price on their Alembic purchase, but also on future purchases on non-Alembic items to go with it. Many Alembic customers realize they have to upgrade other equipment in their signal path at some point, and having a relationship with a dealer can be a very good thing. But there are a few people that simply do not want to go through a dealer. Since they can't get an Alembic made by anyone but us, we do as we are requested.  
 
My theory about why the used values are lower: we are still building custom instruments. Who would spend $10,000 on a used Alembic when they could spend $10,000 getting one made exactly the way they wanted?  
 
Epics and Spoilers seem to hold more percentage value because there are more of them that are similar to each other, and people are familiar with them. Once you have custom options on an instrument, the supply for that particular piece goes down to exactly 1, and the buyers have more work to figure out what they are buying. Maybe it will be exactly what they want, maybe it will be close, maybe they won't be interested at all.  
 
It's a blessing and a curse, this world of custom.

flaxattack

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« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2007, 07:43:37 PM »
and in some cases thats why some customs are still getting a decent return i.e older series 2
imho
lower end alembics are like the first free hit the dealer used to give you,.
hmmmm like that?
soom youre hooked,,,,,,,,
then those thoughts come in.....
you fight it..........
but you cant resist.........
sooner or later you need something stronger........
then you see that special discount for coco bolo.................
then you place your order for your custom.......
you wait patiently........
wondering if you did the right thing........
thinkin you are nuts to spend this type of $$$$$$..........
bass comes.........
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH.........
you did the right thing......
then you start collecting......
those wickershams are pretty cagey people,,,,
lmao

jags

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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2007, 04:29:21 AM »
my thoughts exactly flax,though with myself i was lucky enough to get my nicest one first!  my 20th anniversary.  sometimes its also like they say,first one is for suckers. well i definately got sucked in! though it was my best decision ever. now i have 6 including a baritone orion,and i'm not a guitar player but learning.
 
my friends and other people are likewhy is it that you only play alembic. is it cause their the most expensive, you can only play that?
 
then i'll plug in or let them play,then they change their mind when they hear it and find out what a great deal a used one can be.
 
they ask me why i got the guitar. i say cause i want the best straight away, i have confidence in the product.  i dont want to get something else only to have the eventual happen, and thats get an alembic guitar. why mess around and waste time and money ,just go straight for it,and start enjoying immediately.  
 
thats my philosophy, but usually that's what happens when people dont educate themselves about alembic though,sadly.  oh well their loss,one day they may get it.  
 
(Message edited by jags on April 04, 2007)

bsee

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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2007, 05:23:35 AM »
I guess that means I started out as a pusher.  I talked a few people into buying Alembic basses dating back to the mid 80s, but didn't get sucked in to buy one for myself until this decade.  I must admit that I did occasionally sample the merchandise over the years.  It was probably that loaner Spoiler/Exploiter I had for a few weeks courtesy of a music store managing friend in the late 90s that really got me hooked.  That was one heavy monkey to carry on my back, and weight was the only reason I didn't keep that bass.
 
Sure, I admit I have a problem but don't anybody try to start a new chapter of AA....
 
-bob

alembic_doctor

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« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2007, 07:31:33 AM »
Hi.
 
My name is Doc.  And I'm an Alembaholic.
 
IT all started when I was a kid.  Maybe as young as 4..........

flaxattack

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« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2007, 07:36:00 AM »
lol

ajdover

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« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2007, 07:37:56 AM »
As I read through this thread again, I keep coming back to the phrase value or holding it's value.  Value is relative to the person who owns the instrument.  To some, an instrument is beyond value if there are characteristics that instrument holds.  In this sense, value is incalculable.
 
If one defines value by price point, then yes, there are many other marques that can meet one's needs.
 
If one defines value by quality and craftsmanship, then Alembic is second to none (IMHO).
 
But I think you will rarely find quality, value, and price in the same sentence if you're looking for Alembic quality/value at mass produced instrument prices.
 
My two cents,
 
Alan

adriaan

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« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2007, 07:45:51 AM »
Ah, the chivalry: Because some customers insist on it

alembic_doctor

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« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2007, 07:53:40 AM »
To be quite honest, if I was a guy who didn't need a deal on an Alembic, I'd pay retail and deal directly with Alembic.  
 
Fortunately for me, I was always very persuasive with my customers and they insisted on dealing with me.

the_mule

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« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2007, 07:01:02 AM »
Market value isn't the same as personal value. My opinion is that one should be aware of the secondhand market for Alembics being a buyer's market. You should only buy a new Alembic if you really know what you want. If you don't know (yet) the secondhand market offers great opportunities to discover your personal preferences.
 
I've gone full circle. My first Alembic was a new (N.O.S.) Orion. I loved it, but I foolishly considered it to be a budget model and in a way not a 'real' Alembic. So soon I was looking for an upgrade without being fully aware of the great instrument I had in my hands already. What did I really know, considering I was drooling over pictures of Signature and Series instruments but never played one?
 
Fast forward a few years and I can say that I've owned an Orion, an Elan, an EVH Signature and a Series I. The Elan, EVH and Series I were purchased secondhand, and as a buyer I took full advantage of the steep decrease in value of new Alembics when they enter the secondhand market. I've tried them, enjoyed them very much, but in the process I discovered that they're dream basses, but just not MY dream basses. If you look at my collection now my one and only Alembic is again a new (N.O.S.) Orion.
 
Wilfred
Wilfred

1997 Orion 4 walnut

hifiguy

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« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2007, 07:38:13 PM »
I've been around serious High End audio as a hobbyist and journalist/reviewer for twenty years and the same questions get asked there.  The same question always comes up: Why do these things cost so much? Alembic basses and Wilson Audio loudspeakers ALWAYS generate that question.
 
The answers are the same in both cases.  They are both small companies passionate about building the absolute best products they possibly can build, at the cutting edge of technology.  Being small they have few economies of scale, and both work with exotic and expensive materials that require particularly excellent craftsmanship.  Alembic's woods and Wilson's proprietary composites (used for speaker enclosures) are hellaciously expensive.  They pay their people well and view them as investments, not cost centers.  Furthermore, there is a greater demand for both products than their makers can supply.
 
I have owned my Alembic for eight years, and for the last year and a half had the incredible good fortune to have a review pair of Wilson MAXX 2 loudspeakers in house. I can't afford them, even at industry discount - they're $49k per pair at your local hifi hut - but the experience of being in the presence of something special, seeing the care taken in the design and build, not to mention their one of a kind sonic performance, is identical to what I experience with my Alembic. I will miss these speakers like I have missed no other component that has passed through my music room for review.
 
It is ironic that one pays a few hundred bucks for a bass or a pair of speakers that embody the work of hundreds of people, but thousands, or even tens of thousands of dollars for products that embody the love and dedication of a few dozen artisans. But the handmade bass/speaker has something that can best be called soul and the mass produced product ain't got that for jack. Artisanal products are worth what they cost because of the aesthetic and ethic of the people who build them.  
 
It seems utterly insane to me to spend $10-20k on a vintage (read old and beat up) Fender just because it's old and beat up.  It's still just a Fender and it does well the few things that Fenders do well.  I suspect many of those doing this are collectors, like a couple of watch collectors I know.  But at least they wear their fancy watches once in a while.  My guess is that many of the instrument collecting fanatics never even play their instruments.  Would you play a Clapton provenance Gibson that you paid $250,000 or more for?  I think not.  Instruments are made to be played, not mounted like a moosehead or stored in a vault.
 
A Fender Jazz (and I've owned half a dozen, including two currently) is a brilliantly designed simple tool that functions well.  My Stan Sig Std is a work of art, a thing of joy, beauty and inspiration.  Even after eight years, there are times I just sit and look at it for enjoyment.  When I leave this planet, she is going back to Santa Rosa.  If I'm not here to cherish her, I want her to go home, where she will be loved as I have loved her.

kmh364

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« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2007, 05:45:20 AM »
Paul,
 
I should have done a Google search a long time ago: I've been a long-time Stereophile reader (since the '80's) and an even longr-time audiophile (since the '70's). It's an honor and a pleasure to have a distinguished journo here amongst our ranks. Imagine my embarassment for having paraphrased and/or quoted Sterophile in threads you were a part of, LOL! My apologies.
 
I was just having this same conversation with my Bro. We were discussing hi-end instruments and hi-end audio/home theatre. He's been spending a fortune on mid-fi audio/video and is caught-up in GAS. It's easy to do...I've dumped more than my fair share on hi-end audio, home theatre and hi-end guitars/basses/amps. He realises that he will continue to spend and lose money on same...especially since he can't resist upgrading.
At least he enjoys it, and is willing to take the hit. Now I'm trying to get him to get back into guitars. I know...I'm evil! LOL!
 
I look at it this way: I keep my stuff for a long time. While severely tempted to succumb to uprade-itis, I try to buy the best quality stuff that I can afford and hold on to it and enjoy same for as long as possible With hi-fi, at least I get my use out of it (i.e., ten years or more) so when and if I upgrade, I don't feel too bad about past money spent. With instruments, they're mine virtually forever. I never upgrade, I just add to the collection...and they all do get played (eventually, LOL!).
 
Alembics to me are heirloom quality. They can be handed-down for generations because of the Wickershams's refusal to compromise design and build quality. While mass-market stuff is what it is, my Alembics will continue to wow (me at least) regardless of age and which trends come and go.
 
Moral of the story: buy what you can afford and enjoy the H*ll out of it! Who cares what it'll be worth? It's worth what you're willing to pay and especially worth it if you enjoy it. Resale doesn't mean that much if you can't enjoy what you bought because of the investment potential.  
 
Cheers,
 
Kevin

bsee

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« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2007, 09:09:14 AM »
Paul-
 
Is Alembic really at the cutting edge of technology?  As far as I can tell, they were there 30 years ago, but maybe not so much anymore.  Outside of altering body shapes and tweaking specs on existing electronics, I can't recall the last time they introduced something completely new.
 
If being on the cutting edge were that important, your eight year old Alembic might even be obsolete by now.  I would argue that Alembic got it right with their designs and that they have stood the test of time, not that they are at the cutting edge of technology.