Author Topic: Preferred Bass Rig For Series Electronics  (Read 922 times)

spose

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« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2005, 05:47:41 AM »
here's how I run 76 294
 
 

spose

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« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2005, 05:52:20 AM »


 


David Houck

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« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2005, 08:26:12 AM »
Gary; what you would want to do is by-pass the preamp section of the AH-500, and looking at the manual for the AH-500 it appears that the effects loops are post-EQ and that it should work.  My guess is that you would set the Effects Loop Mode Switch to Series and that you would run the output of the F-1X or F-2B into either of the Return jacks on the AH-500.  For Mono you would use one of the Right jacks.  If you go with an F-1X and an SF-2, you can run the SF-2 in the effects loop of the F-1X.  If you go with an F-2B and an SF-2, you can run from the F-2B to the SF-2 and then from there to the effects return of the AH-500.  I've noticed that there a number of fellow members who run their Alembic preamps into the effects return or other post-EQ input of a stand alone amp.  When I first acquired my F-1X, I ran it in similar fashion into my Eden WT-800.
 
Essentially, the Bag End Elf system, or as it is now called, the Infra system, is similar to an active crossover, but not really.  It is beyond my abilities to describe how it works, but the system is an Elf processor and one or more Elf subwoofers.  The processor splits the full range signal from the preamp into two outputs, a subwoofer output and the remaining high pass output.  Both outputs then go to power amp channels with the high pass signal going to whatever speakers you choose and the sub output going to the Elf subs.

sfnic

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« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2005, 10:45:33 AM »
Gary - Actually, the setup is dirt simple.  The instruments go into whatever pedal effects I use (generally a chorus, phase shifter and/or overdrive).  From there into their respective preamps.  From the preamps, they go into a primitive line-level unity-gain mixer.  Any line level devices (delay, spectrum analyzer, secondary EQ, etc.), follow the mixer, which also provides DI outs to the PA guys.  That stereo signal hits the crossover, which splits 3-ways for the power and speakers.  Essentially, it's a small PA setup, with optimized front-ends for instruments.  Since it's primarily a bass rig, it's LF-heavy, by intent.  In fact, when set up the way I like it, the mid-range 12s are almost inaudible.  (And, in fact, for smaller gigs I'd leave them out entirely and go two-way with 5s and 15s, leaving that nice midrange hole in the response.
 
Gare - Yup.  I hand-built them when I worked for Jimmy; they're serial numbers 14 and 15, off the initial pre-production manufacturing run.  One of these days I really should upgrade them and swap out the RC4558s for LF353s, but I've been lazy.  Realistically, I should be running them in an effects loop or post-mixer, but I like the way they sound as front-end preamps.
 
John - Tube amps have _even-order_ harmonic distortion, and you're absolutely right about the resulting tone.  Mac 3500s always sounded better when overdriven than their 2300 solid-state (odd-order harmonics) brethren did, but the old Dead system was generally run so far below overdrive that they were sonically identical.  Btw., FETs also exhibit even-order harmonics.
 
Gary (again) - If I had the money and was building a bass only setup from scratch today, I'd run an FX-1 with an SF-1 in the effects loop.  From the Xover outs from the FX-1, it'd be straight into some decent lightweight power amps and the basic 3-way speaker rig I mentioned above (5s, 12s, 15s).  If I was running a series bass into that, I _might_ add some EV T350 piezos (talk about old school!) paralleled off the 5s for some extreme top-end bite.  The upper Xover point would be around 4500-5k, so the top of the instrument's filters could hit the tweeter array cleanly, and let the T350s go all ultrasonic with the rolloff curve for the ultimate click on the string attack.  (I play with a pick; finger-players and slappers may not find the T350s all that helpful.)
 
For effects, I'd find a decent line-level DSP setup and patch it into the FX-1's loop, in front of the Superfilter.  Then I'd try to design a wireless controller for the DSP box...
 
Of course, with a Series bass, it'd be tempting to run it dead flat, straight into the crossover without any other shaping.  Voice the speaker array to fit the instrument, then let the bass handle all supplemental shaping without any intermediate processing.  Certainly, the Series electronics can drive a crossover's line-level input directly.
 
That'd also be about the cheapest way to go, and would also ensure the least amount of signal path noise.  With the pure Series tone as good as it is, why f*ck with it with intermediate tone processors?
 
Or, strip _everything_ out of the way and go direct-drive.  If you've got a decent 2 or 3-way cabinet (passive Xover or self-powered), just run the bass straight into the power amp inputs.  You may need to crank the instrument's gain all the way up, but it'll put out well over 1 volt, which is enough to drive most power amps directly.
 
nic
 
 
(Message edited by sf-nic on June 29, 2005)

dela217

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« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2005, 03:47:44 PM »
Nic - I like your ideas in amps for bass.  This is my current rig:
 
Alembic Series bass powered by a IN-2 power supply.  Then the signal can go to the PA from there.  From the IN-2 I go into an old Alembic F2 preamp.  Then into one of those early PQ-3's like you have.  The one I have by the way is one of the ones you wired way back when.  I believe it's serial number is under 30 or so.  I use the Furman to get some extra low end EQ.  Then the signal goes into a QSC RMX 1450.  From there into a Bag End 2X10 box with the tweeter and/or an EV 1-15 bin.  Really sounds huge, but it a lot to move so mostly I just take the 2x10 and run the amp mono.
 
I have kinda gone back to my early days with using this type of rig.  Up until recently I used a GK-400 with my Bag End box.  Small and portable, but no versatility.  
 
Michael

sfnic

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« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2005, 04:30:46 PM »
I've taken a bit of a liking to the QSC RMX-series stuff.  Relatively lightweight and damned near bulletproof.
 
Yup, I definitely wired up #30.  The first 200 or so were all mine.  Jimmy did the circuit and the pCB layout; I tracked down the vendor (Sigma Circuits), bought all the parts and built the things while Jim was designing the original TX-2.  I forget who actually constructed the chassis; Jim did the layout and mechanicals.  And he's responsible for those little red knobs.

j_gary

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« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2005, 09:23:58 PM »
graeme, I know what you mean about the eighties sound. I have not found a amp I like better as of yet. I thought Trace made all my basses sound better and more modern, then I bought an Alembic. I'm still learning how to fly her but I have yet to get the pure Alembic sound through the Trace unscathed. There are many great ideas coming my way from the troops, which I am going to try.
 
spose, great looking set up and I love the colorful diagram. It makes it so much easier to see what you have done and has given me some fun ideas to try, thanks!
 
Dave, great tip on F-2B and AH500 set up. I'm going to start scrounging around for a F-2B and SF-2.
 
Hi nic, I like both suggestions, high tech and natural. I can get carried away with technology and forget to just let the bass do the heavy lifting.
 
Great ideas gentlemen, this is wonderful to have the benefit of all your experience, thank you!

bracheen

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« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2005, 03:28:21 AM »
John, thanks for the power amp insight.  It's something I've been wondering about not having any experience there.
 
Thanks for sharing your thread Gary.  I've really enjoyed the knowledge laid out here.
 
Sam

dnburgess

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« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2005, 04:22:20 AM »
Nic - do you mean QSC PLX?  I  thought the RMX units were quite heavy.

j_gary

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« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2005, 04:30:38 AM »
Hey Sam, forgetaboutit, none of the light released on this thread came from me. I used to think I knew a thing or two until these guys stood up. It's worth the price of an Alembic just to be a passenger on this site.
 
Stay Low, Gary

811952

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« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2005, 06:55:15 AM »
Gary,  
I am an total agreement about the experience of being a passenger on this site.  I love reading everybody's stuff and hope one day to meet each of you, perhaps at The Mothership.  I love this site.  Dave Houck ought to compile a Gearhead's Guide to Music from these pages, that is, if he hasn't already done so... ;)
John

dadabass2001

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« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2005, 08:04:51 AM »
David & Nic
I just purchased a PLX 1602 to replace my RMX 1450 in my giging rack (I've still got both).  
Per QSC documentation, the RMX 1450 is 400 w/channel @ .1% THD and weighs 40 lbs (18.2kg).
The PLX 1602 is 500 w/channel @ .05% THD and weighs 21 lbs (9.5 kg) Apparently all of the PLX line is the same weight.
Mike
"The Secret of Life is enjoying the passage of Time"
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cosmic

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« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2005, 12:37:28 PM »
Hey spose -- I like the Stealie on your Furman! :-)

sfnic

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« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2005, 05:45:34 PM »
Uhhh, yeah.  PLX.  That's what I meant.
 
(Actually, I _did_ mean RLX, as they were the first QSCs I came across after far too long away from live sound.  They were still lighter than their equivalent Crown DC-whatevers, which was why I fell in like with Quilter in the first place, back about 1980.  Since the PLXs are lighter still, I suspect I'll like them even more, once I get around to trying one out.)
 
Though I must confess to being curious about all this inexpensive Behringer gear I'm seeing all over the place...

mpisanek

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« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2005, 02:20:01 AM »
Just to throw my 2 cents in here.
 
My bias is that I love gear!  But at the same time I am a sound fanatic as well!  This has led me to have many a tussle with myself over whether to buy something new or to keep what I have.
 
In my head I am looking for that perfect sound.  I know what it is, but I can't find anything to produce it.  
 
The whole thing about power amps is a strange one.  Power amps definitely colour sound.  I believe that you will be able to get good quality gear from almost any manufacturer, but at the end of the day the sound you put out must please yourself and the audience.  When your sound is run through a PA rig you pass control of your sound to the audience into the hands of a sound engineer.  In a smaller venue you might get away with the sound of your rig, in which case you are in control of it.  Hopefully you can make it pleasing to both yourself and the audience.
 
Sound, and whether you happen to like it or not, is mostly a matter of taste.
 
Having said all of that I currently use QSC and I think they are great!  The sound is clean.  But If I were to look again at a power amp, I would consider the Crown K2.  This amp also sounds great and has plenty of headroom and a bottom end to die for!  The K2 has no fan either!  However, if I did swap amps at the moment, I would have to make sure that the doghouse had running water and electricity in it!