Author Topic: Preferred Bass Rig For Series Electronics (Read 877 times)

j_gary · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2005, 09:13:07 AM »

Hi John, great info. I drug around an old 301/370 Acoustic for several years. Powerful but you had to be 30 feet away to hear with any clarity. I jumped on biamping in a desperate attempt for a clean tone. It's only now I wonder if it is still a necessity as the Alembic sounds good in just about anything. However I am determined to discover what is the best adjunct for the Alembic voice, that I can fit in my truck that is. BTW easy on the old guy stuff, I've got years on you and I can't handle the truth.

Stay Low, Gary.

811952 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2005, 11:22:10 AM »

Gary,

I really meant young, very very young, so please forgive my typos..

I would recommend playing through as many different amps in as many different settings as you possibly can, chatting-up as many other players as you can at music stores and such to get an opportunity to listen to their real-world setups. Visit as many live-music bars as you can, even the ones whose music you don't like, and talk to the other players about their setups. Play your bass through them if they'll let you. I've even let other players play my Alembic for a set or two, just so I can hear it from out front (and to make them jealous, of course). While we can all give you our 2-cents worth of advice and guidance, you still can't listen to our setups from where you are and in the end what matters most is what sounds good to your ears (and thumps your chest just right!).

I really, really like my Ampeg/Kustom setup right now, because it's warm and has all the highs/lows/mids I can use and a buttload of flexibility. After I've used it awhile I'll probably compile a list of gripes, but lots of people seem to be pretty happy with the Ampeg head at least. It's a very musical-sounding system, for lack of a better term. You probably would have a difficult time going wrong with a higher-end model SWR, Eden, Ampeg or Aguilar, and an Alembic Superfilter would seem to be without peer if you require additional tone-shaping. And of course, more power will make everything sound cleaner and clearer (everything else being equal).

Hope at least some of this helps..
John

slapbass · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2005, 04:55:29 PM »

Gary,
That's just the big rig. We play only outdoors these days and I hate sound engineers trying to make me sound like a Fender. I wanted the cool Louis Johnson sound from the seventies and that is what it took for me to find that sound and not run through a PA. I love when the crew comes to unload the truck and they look at all the bass gear and say the same thing you did. My neighbors don't mind unless they have company or it is before 9:00 at night. The college kids down the street think I am crazy too with all the slap bass grooves and all the POWER.

Keep Thumpin'
Dale

sfnic · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2005, 05:37:58 PM »

Hmmm. I guess I'm ancient school.

These days, I'm running anything and everything through an old prototype Studiomaster 60W tube/solid state hybrid guitar head that's been kicking around since about '77. In-house it's driving a single JBL D120 in one of Quicksilver Messenger Service's old foot monitors.

The last live gig I played (about 15 years ago), I was running my Guild Starfire IV stereo into a pair of Furman PQ3 parametric preamps summed into a TX3 crossover. That drives a 3-way setup with BGW 750Bs pushing old Alembic A-15 cabs with Gauss 5140s; SAE 2200s driving Alembic B-12s with Gauss (I think the model was 2840), and a Phase Linear 400 driving Alembic B-5 cabs full of JBL 2105s. Some of the components were castoffs from the old Dead system; others were bits and chunks I scrounged together over the years.

As a 3-way system, it was pretty versatile for most anything. Bass, certainly. Keyboards and Guitars worked fine with different front-ends. For keyboards I generally went through a different set of PQ3s and for guitar work I used a highly modified '65 Deluxe Reverb with preamp outs (and master volumes and a tweaked midrange and a preamp stack switch and a hum balancer and Stratoblaster front end and a crunch control that collapses the cathodes of the driver stage).

Versatility. That was the goal, at least.

I still have parts of that heap, but I did sell the Deluxe in a fit of Ineedthemoney back in the early 80s. Probably the only DR with a JBL D-123 in it, so if you come across it, remember me and smile.

j_gary · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2005, 08:37:00 PM »

Hey Nic, what in the name of......? Are you some kind of astronaut? Jeeze man, it would be easier to understand nuclear fission than to set up your rig. If I were in a national touring band, I'd hire you right now to run our sound. I'm still struggling with tubes vs. solid state and your talking partical theory. I would have loved to have been around when you were figuring out the above set up. If you have the type of mind that can manage sound issues with so much detail, 15 years is too long to be out of the game. Hopefully you are still in the music business.

It really is cool to hear about all these different approaches to getting the right sound. Thanks for your time and description. Now that you've frightened me, I'm going to rock in the corner for a while and try to learn how to determine shielded cable from unshielded.

Alright, quit laughing, Gary.

bracheen · « **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2005, 05:46:41 AM »

Can I butt in here and ask a somewhat related, possibly even dumb, question? How much does the power amp affect tone? Is the tone derived primarily from the instrument and the preamp? What would one need to look for in a power amp other than power? OK, 4 questions. Back to you Gary.

Sam

(Message edited by bracheen on June 28, 2005)

gare · « **Reply #21 on:** June 28, 2005, 06:16:57 AM »

Gary
Have you checked out some of the other threads about ampage ? Like this one http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/17694.html?1115514731.
So many possibilities..also, what kind of a budget is available ? God knows the skys the limit given the funds.
Ok..so if Dale is 'old school' and Nic is 'ancient school' ,I hope I'm not 'mesozoic school' !
And be careful of the cats tail while you're rocking.

Gare

Nic..do you still use the PQ3's ?

811952 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2005, 06:34:08 AM »

In a perfect world, the power amp doesn't color the signal at all, but actually the power amp can have plenty to do with tone. The right power amp can hide a multitude of preamp sins, and the wrong one can make any preamp sound like crap. As far as I'm concerned (don't tell my back or my chiropractor), big (200 watts or greater) tube power amps are far more desireable than pretty much anything else out there, tonewise, but are hard to find, weigh a ton and cost a bundle. They tend to do really nice things to whatever signal you put through them. They have very musical compression and the *right* kind of harmonic distortion (I don't remember if it's even or odd-order, but it's the one I want to have) and tend to breathe, for lack of a better term. Crown solid-state amps have always had a similar reputation. Peavey amps have always seemed rather cold, but more reliable than dirt. QSC has an excellent reputation. If you really want to judge the relative value of one type of power amp over another, find and try buying an old McIntosh power amp. People are more inclined to sell you their children and let you date their wife than get rid of those wonderful things, so what they do to a signal must be pretty good. It seems like I recall Rami waxing nostalgic about his old McIntosh stuff, if that's any indicator. And heck, I used to know a guy at Producer's Workshop that could reliably hear the difference between gold and switchcraft patch panel connectors, so pretty much everything contributes (or subtracts)!

John - rambling as usual

j_gary · « **Reply #23 on:** June 28, 2005, 01:28:48 PM »

Hi Sam, jump aboard anytime, very kind of you to ask. Speaking of which, great question. Thanks to John for some insight on a consideration I've missed.

Gare, I'm right with you on the endless possibilities with only funds as the limit. Cool sites BTW.

Approaching the Series sound dilemma from another direction. What do you think of a Trace Elliot/Series Alembic combo. I've been using their 500 & 600 stereo heads, biamping into various combinations of their 115,410 and a 18/10 cabs for years. I also have the straight 600 Valve head. They are powerful, smooth,quiet and reliable. They have always made the bass I'm playing sound better. I am not so sure with the Alembic. I also can't help but think that over the last 20 years the amp technology has vastly improved. That is until you read about the lasting love affair with the Ampeg SVT Classic with an 810 cab. Thoughts?

Great stuff guys, Gary.

David Houck · « **Reply #24 on:** June 28, 2005, 03:09:30 PM »

Gary; there are a number of members in our group that use Trace Elliot. In fact, there are a number of members that use Eden, Demeter, SWR, Mesa, Ampeg, Alembic, etc., etc. There is no one Preferred Bass Rig For Series Electronics. The members of our group play very diverse styles of music and are looking for very diverse sounds from their instruments. As Gare pointed out, there have been numerous previous threads about amps and cabs, so you may want to peruse through some of the past thread titles or maybe run a search for a particular brand of amp or cab. For instance, when I just checked there were 55 previous threads mentioning Trace Elliot; so perhaps someone at some point has posted something that you might find helpful on Trace Elliot. Also, regarding your statement that you can't help but think that over the last 20 years the amp technology has vastly improved; there are quite a few members here that play through Alembic preamps, the technology of which is significantly older than 20 years. So there may be a few folks around here who might disagree with you on that point .

j_gary · « **Reply #25 on:** June 28, 2005, 04:01:37 PM »

Hi Dave, I hear you loud and clear, you coming through a Trace? It's like asking what's the best song, or who is the most beautiful woman, after Mica of course. I realize it is primarily subjective but I have been out of the loop for a while, and I thought the Alembicians might have leaned in a particular direction. I feel that these basses are quite different from anything I've played before. There is a clarity and presence that even makes it through my old nasty monkey butt Peavey practice amp. It appears though that you are correct, that what we want to do with that tone is very diverse. And you don't know how happy it makes me to hear that the old stuff can still be good, as that is not only what I own, it's also what I am.

Stay Low, Gary

David Houck · « **Reply #26 on:** June 28, 2005, 05:00:27 PM »

Gary; no, I've never owned or played through a Trace Elliot amp. My current rig is an Alembic F-1X preamp, Alembic SF-2 superfilter, T.C.Electronic M-One XL effects processor, Ashly SC-50 compressor limiter, and a QSC PLX 2402 power amp. My cabinets, depending on the venue, are an Acme Low B-2 Series 2, Bag End D10X-D, two Eden 210-XLTs, and an SWR Goliath Senior. I've also recently purchased a Bag End Elf system that I hope to incorporate into my rig soon.

jlpicard · « **Reply #27 on:** June 28, 2005, 06:20:52 PM »

Gary, If it means anything to you, I once visited Alembic at one of their old locations. Can't remember where it was,( some reddish colored barn looking thing ) but in the setup room they had a rather large Trace stack that they used to check out the operation of the new insruments. So, if it was good enough for them....

j_gary · « **Reply #28 on:** June 28, 2005, 08:40:28 PM »

Dave, seems the Alembic preamp and SF-2 are very popular.Can their use be incorporated into a stand alone rig such as my AH500? What is the Bag End Elf system?

Mike, thanks for that juicy piece of info, very interesting!

jacko · « **Reply #29 on:** June 29, 2005, 04:49:05 AM »

Gary.
I use Trace Elliot - I've had a 1210HSMX 4x10 combo for around 10 years. don't have a series bass yet though ;-( For a while I've been planning on adding a 1x15 cabinet and had pretty much settled on one of the trace cabs when they appear in August. However, just lately I've decided to move away from trace - the tone, whilst 'reasonably' versatile, just seems not to augment the rogue electronics I have now (and the combo weighs 49Kilos !! ok when you're young). Also, I think the signature Trace sound is pretty well stuck in the eighties along with Mark king - no bad thing but I don't play much slap just now. After my holiday I'm going to borrow Mike Pisanek's rig to see just how versatile modern electronics and speakers are. OK, he has an F1X which is pretty old technology but the rest is pretty much state of the art - QSC power amp and a pair of eden XST210s. If I'm happy with the sound, I'm ordering an XLT115 to give the trace a better bottom end - it's very 'middly' for want of a better expression - until next spring when I'll be able to afford a decent pre - power set up and either a 210 or 410 eden cab. - I've only heard mike using a graphite upright through his rig (and it had 1 blown driver) but it sounded fantastic.

graeme

(Message edited by jacko on June 29, 2005)