Finger noise

[David Houck]

I stand corrected; after looking at the Furman, it does appear that it is adjustable enough to do the same notching that the graphic EQ is doing.

[adriaan]

Dave,
 
The #1 question in troubleshooting: when did the problem first occur? And question #2: you probably made a change immediately before the problem arose, what was it?
 
#3 must be: have you isolated the source of the problem? Try your bass with another rig to rule out your rig, and another bass with your rig to rule out your bass.
 
Some thoughts on troubleshooting your bass: Could this be the thing where the Alembic pots need to do a bit of self-cleaning? Just turn them all the way up and all the way down a few times - remember to switch off the whole rig beforehand. The same applies if you have an Alembic pre-amp. And the one that we all forget: did you try putting in a fresh 9V battery?
 
Some thoughts on troubleshooting the rig: what kind of rig are you using? If it's one that has a tweeter, what kind? If it has a cross-over (perhaps built into the cab) and it's been with you for a number of years then perhaps there could be a problem with an electric component (leaky capacitors come to mind). Try eliminating/replacing components in your signal chain, preferably the simple ones first (instrument cable!) and then work back from the cabs to your pre-amp.
 
Happy hunting!

[David Houck]

Adriaan, now that I think about it, the earliest I can remember noticing this is maybe 10 years ago, give or take a couple years; beyond that I just can't remember.  It has existed over multiple basses, amps, cabs and string brands.  I can't recall when I started playing light gauge strings; that may be a constant.  And that is where I started with this thread, wondering if maybe string gauge or string tension might be a factor.  But I do love my Thomastiks.  As mentioned above, another consideration is right hand technique; if I used only a light touch, the problem would be largely eliminated.  But I use a variety of right hand techniques, including aggressively digging in on walking style and different slap techniques.  As mentioned above, in watching videos of other bass players, I don't see where their techniques are less aggressive; yet I don't hear any extraneous noise.  (Marcus Miller is I think a good example here.)  Another consideration is that it's all in my head, but others have noticed it too.  A year or two ago I played a recording, on which I was the bass player, for a friend who's first response was what's all that clicking?  
 
These posts have made me really think about the problem; so I am very appreciative to all of you.  I still plan to try Hasse's suggestion of using a crossover to send the high end to a compressor; I've been thinking about it a lot and that should at least be an intersting experiment (though I'm thinking it might adversly affect the sound of snapping the G string).  And I'll continue to adjust the setup and my technique.
 
(Message edited by davehouck on May 17, 2004)

[adriaan]

Dave, it sure doesn't look as if anything is really wrong with the bass or the rig. It has to be the combination of a heavy-handed righthand technique, the string gauges (unfortunately TI doesn't give you any options) low string height and little neck relief - from where I'm sitting, what you hear is probably the strings hitting the top frets.
 
Sure you can have super low action, and have a near-straight neck, and it sounds sweet, but those fret clicks are annoying. My Spoiler came to me like that, and now I've raised the action a fraction, and loosened the truss rods a tiny bit. It plays a little less easy now, but it certainly took care of the fret clicks.

[David Houck]

Adriaan; I'm thinking you are right.  Currently the nuts on both truss rods on my Spoiler are loose; there is some bow in the neck but not a lot.  I'm guessing the light tension Thomastiks might not be helping much.  When I get my Essence back, I'll compare the relief on the two basses.  The bridge on the Spoiler is currently what I think of as pretty high; the distance between the top of the 24th fret and the bottom of the E string is currently about .086 (2.1844mm).  Clearly though, the sound of a note fretted at the 24th fret is much different from one fretted further back.  I'll experiment more with the setup and see what conclusions I can draw.

[adriaan]

Dave, 2 mm string height on the E at the 24th fret is not high by my standards. You'll be surprised how well an Alembic will play with a relatively high action. -  But the truss rod nuts should not be loose, I think.
 
Also, do you have the 32 TIs or the long scale ones? Their 32 sets are a bit heavier than their 34 sets.
 
I have the wrapper for my new set of JazzFlats here, it also lists the tension for the JazzRounds and it's a bit up and down from string to string between the two scales:
= 32 =
E .093 28.95 lbs
A .069 28.10 lbs
D .056 33.28 lbs
G .042 30.42 lbs
total: 120.75 lbs
 
= 34 =
E .089 27.99 lbs
A .068 29.54 lbs
D .051 30.20 lbs
G .043 34.61 lbs
total: 122.34 lbs
 
Of course this is when you have the set installed at the correct scale length. For the JazzFlats, they have the same string gauges for the two scales, except the E is .100 on 34 and .106 on 32, and they list with much higher tension on the long scale (4 to 5 pounds each), except for the E string. Not sure if that helps you ...
 
I'm about to move a set of 34 JazzFlats from my fretless Epic to my Spoiler, see what comes out..

[keavin]

Actually finger noise (to me) is kinda tasteful, it brings out the alembic sound in my bass.

[adriaan]

Keavin, I agree about the finger noise. It's when you get fret clicks without hitting anywhere near hard, that's annoying to have.

[David Houck]

Adriaan; I have the 32 Jazz Rounds on my 32 Spoiler.
 
Keavin; I also agree.  A certain amount of finger noise can be nice; it provides a percussive element to the note.  This is especially nice in muted notes.  But as Adriaan states, too much finger noise is annoying and detracts from the overall sound.

[frank_orlando]

Dave, I have the same problem. You are describing fret clicking and not string noise. I also play with a very percussive right hand finger style. In addition, my left hand hits the strings hard when I finger a note...almost like a hammer-on technique. This also adds fret clicks. The result is good and bad. I have an interesting sound that is bright and full of piano like overtones but I GET FRET CLICKS LIKE CRAZY IF I DON'T DO THE FOLLOWING.  
 
First, I set my relief between .018 and .020 at the E string 8th fret.  It is about .014 on the G string 8th fret. I use a feeler gage to measure this.
Second, I set my action at the 12th fret for 1/8 on the E and 3/32 on the G. I measure this with a steel machinist ruler that is graduated in 1/32 increments so I get an accurate reading.  
Third, heavier gage strings require more tension and are less likely to click. I am using round wounds, either DR Hi-Beams or GHS Boomers .105 - .045. I don't go any lighter on the gage.    
 
I still get a bit of click on the A string but it is tolerable and only when I REALLY dig in. If I raise the action another 32nd of an inch it goes away but I like it at 1/8 for now. I play a short scale Essence and a short scale custom with Essence electronics. I play with the Q switch on and the Q tone all the way to bright. The pick-up selector is in the middle. My Ampeg is set pretty bright and I use a 15 and 410 SVT Classic cabs. I can give you more on my amp settings if it is of any interest.  
 
If your truss rod nuts are loose then it may be time for a heat bend of the neck to get the relief back. Heavier strings will add some relief too. Set-up is a personal thing so you may not like my numbers but it does work without having to change your sound, eliminate frequencies, etc. Good luck. Frank

[David Houck]

Thanks Frank; I raised the bridge a little this afternoon and practiced for a while.  Didn't help much, but I thought I would try and gradually move the action up some and see how it feels and sounds.

[dnburgess]

I find I get really horrible string noises if I don't keep the finger nails on my right hand really short. I clip them before every rehearsal or gig.

[David Houck]

Good point Dave; but I keep my trimmed too, that's not the problem here.

[keavin]

I, (presonally) love the 'finger nail sound',it gives lots of presence to the note.

[keavin]

I, (personally) love the 'finger nail sound',it gives lots of presence to the note.