Troubleshooting for 5 string Spoiler #86S4221

[Artgeckko]

Hello Ed,

Thank you for the help.
I will include my glueing of the headstock plan.
Please note I did not remove the tuners or logo, but the hand clamps I used did not make contact with that space.
I did remove the nut (all parts) and used the felt for chair feet to protect the finish.
Used type 3 Titebond, and left clamped for 24hrs.
First inspection looks great!  will get back to it later today, I think...
Question about the nut.
Does the flat Part of the three piece nut supposed to be glued to the neck.
As I pointed out, the nut, the flat base the set screw and the metal insert all fell out when replacing strings...
Thank you for the help.

[Artgeckko]

Quick description...
For the pawl, I used a razor blade to gentle open crack 
Once in place, I used straightened heavy staples to hold space open in three locations.
Used a bush to get Titebond into crack, and clamped using hand clamps with felt chair protectors for 24hrs.

[JimmyJ]

Hopefully that will take care of the headstock issue.  I guess you'll know when you get it all up to pitch.

The nut - I believe that thin flat piece is usually tacked in place with a drop of glue but it's not completely necessary because it's all held down tight by the pressure from the strings.  That center screw and its threaded insert would normally also hold it all in place but you'll need to think about what to do there because of your solder-filled A-string slot. 

You're making good progress!
Jimmy J

[edwardofhuncote]

Well done. The main thing is get glue to it, and positive clamping pressure. Its unfortunate that it got cracked, but a solid repair won't break again. If you got good squeeze-out, that headstock will be fine.


You asked earlier about the body core wood... Mica will confirm when/if she locates the build information on your bass, but I'd bet a new set of strings it's a mahogany core with a koa top. A fine combination.

[Artgeckko]

Thanks for the information Jimmy J
Sorry, didn’t mention that I used a solder gun to remove the solder. Thankfully the screw underneath and threaded insert all work as hoped.
Testing the neck will be tomorrows adventure.
Will give it another day to cure.

Thanks again.

[Artgeckko]

Hello Ed!

Yeah when I clamped it there was a very uniform amount of glue that beaded out.
I was happy to see this, but felt confident that the brush did a good job of getting the glue deep into the space.
I believe you are right about the body and wood top…see what Mica says…
Good to give it a day to rest…It’s had quite the overhaul since arriving

[gtrguy]

Yes, the neck should be repaired by a qualified luthier. The good news is that it's not too hard to fix, a combination of the right glue and a good clamp. Also, when done right, it should be stable (glue is stronger than wood).

[Artgeckko]

Hey Club!
Could not agree more GTRGUY, and have deferred other projects to a local luthier, but I felt confident in taking this on.
I do like doing my own work, and have finished and built basses since fretting a bass in my teens...
Think I've gotten better, but certainly defer to masters for anything too major.
Most of this seemed primarily cosmetic, but cracks lead to bigger issues, and considering chaos dynamics, every potential thing matters.
It's been 2 days since putting on tension on neck, and playing it for a while last night(my first 5 string, so I'm a little lost with the low b) but its staying in tune, despite a worse for wear B and D tuner.
Ordered some Gold Gotoh tuners(seemed to go well with brass) and some gold strap buttons.
Not usually a gold fan...will see how it looks...
The electronics cover is clearly not original, black plastic, misaligned screws, not correct thickness... 
Any thoughts on replacements?
Here are some updated pictures showing joint, crack repair, and backplate.
Thanks again
E

[adriaan]

If you remove the backplate you should find the threaded inserts for the plate screws that would originally have been there. Is the current backplate attached with wood screws?

[JimmyJ]

Great work on that repair, looks like new!  Strange about the replacement backplate - and with wood screws?     The electronics package is still a puzzle too.  All of these instruments come with some considerable history.  It's like forensic work trying to figure out their stories.

Keep going, you're on a roll!

Jimmy J

PS: pickups - 2 (shorter screws) are meant to be under the pickup while the 2 longer ones are meant to gently hold it down.  No springs or foam underneath.  Results should look like this:

[edwardofhuncote]

Well done, Ed, good fix. Man, I'm reliving my own past here, fixing up a nice old Alembic in need. Here's where/when I met these fine folks, waaaay on back. You can see my restoration unfold, starting on page two.


https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=601.0

[jon_jackson]

Very nice repair work!

[Artgeckko]

Thanks all!

Ed, thanks for the link to your renovation thread too!
I have suspicions that the bass was refinished?  the body cavity had none of the (shielded?) paint your exhibits?
and yes the coverplate is held on by wood screws, as was one of the pickups( the cracked one , go figure!
( pu screws on order from alembic.)
 
Great resource this site.  There is so much information, my head may explode!
This bass is gonna be a patience project,  hard to not just want to throw strings on and play it! 
The Nut
Unfortunately, I think the nut has been filled too low.  Makes sense why the nut, when I received it, was kinda shaped like a W.  the adjustment screws had been cranked on the low and high side the E/A strings almost flat. 
In addition, the lock screw threaded insert collar is completely loose in hole in neck.
Not sure I have my head around how this actually works, but I can get nut clearance appropriate for .55mm feeler gauge at first fret for B,D,G, but E/A are as low as .40 and .38 and those strings have some discernible buzz.  Neck relief is good, as is bridge string height, so I suspect nut.  Probably why they had solder in the center screw slot to build up height??
The electronics are going to be a investment.  Looks to be somewhat of a redo, which is okay, but will wait til knob puller to attack that.
I will add that they do sound good, very even across all strings, which is very noticable.
There is some Spoiler electronics on Reverb, but seller is not sure if they work?  So I'm hesitant. 
Body work...
The crack between the  pickup selector knob and rear tone knob is a tiny bit raised, so its structural, and Ed, any further info on your course of refinishing the internal  pocket will surely be requested, will update when the knob puller hopefully removes thhese press fit knobs without cracking wood further. 
Tuners, puller, screws should be here in about a week or so.
Thoughts on the nut are very welcome, reorder from alembic, maybe electronics too?
Thanks again!

Please keep the info coming! 
jon_jackson...7 Alembics!!!  maybe not that unusual, but damn!  My wife gives me sideways looks for buying this one!
Thanks again to all as I continue down this rabbit hole!

[JimmyJ]

Hey Ed,

Here's the deal with the nut as far as I understand it...

It's unfortunate that on our 5-string basses that center "hold down" bolt falls right in our A-string slot, but it is what it is.  And because there is a hole in the middle of that slot the A-string comes into contact with less brass as it travels over the nut.  Consequently that slot may be more susceptible to wear than the other slots over a long period of time.  Although in all my years playing 5-strings I can't say I've experienced this as a problem, I have had occasion to work on the slot depths to get the action set up as I like it.

Ideally you also want to match the nut and bridge saddle slots to the string gauges you prefer.  But that's hard to do until you really settle on a set of strings you like.

So all that said, since the overall nut height is adjustable the trick is to raise it until the string with the deepest slot has the proper clearance for the action you desire - and then deepen any of the other slots that are too high.

The only slot you want to avoid cutting down is the center one because you don't want the string be in contact with the countersunk head of that bolt.  If it's too late and the bottom of that center slot is already exposing that bolt then you should think about starting over with a replacement nut.

You'll have to get some other advice on how to re-secure the threaded insert that has fallen out of your headstock.  Some combination of wood filling and glueing I would imagine?  Again, it's never meant to be under much pressure, it's only meant to snugly hold the nut assembly in place once you've made your overall height adjustment.

I'm still really curious about the electronics too.  It looks half-factory - because of the extra routing and fit, and half-3rd party - because of the unrecognizable boards, pots and switches.  If your wish is to eventually put it back to stock spoiler electronics, as you can see in the pic below the control closest to the 1/4" jack was originally a switch.  So I'm afraid that hole in your bass has been enlarged.  Same goes for the pickup selector switch (pointy knob) which also uses a smaller mounting hole than a pot.  So restoring that aspect of the bass to original might be tricky.  Once you get it up and running you should certainly play it for a while as is because you might like whatever that is in there.

Jimmy J

[edwardofhuncote]

I was faced with several of these same choices, as my bass had also been routed out some, and had an extra hole drilled. I ended up having to actually fill one back in, and redrill to a smaller diameter for a Q-switch, and use a larger backup washer to bush it with.

The good news Ed, is you've got choices. There are four holes there, so you could opt for a simple Volume/Pan/Bass/Treble circuit that Alembic uses for Epic/Orion/Excel models. Or you could do a little more like mine, and opt for Volume/Pan/Filter/Q-switch, if you can do as I did and 'shrink' one of the holes. I don't know if the electronics cavity in your bass is quite big enough to stuff a set of Signature electronics into; it would be a sardine can for sure, but a huge upgrade. Honestly, keep it simple man. Have a conversation with Mica sometime and she can give you some great advice about what will be easiest to retrofit, and what you can expect from it. That 15 talk she gave me 9 years ago was a game-changer.

Jumping ahead...

While you have the electronics cavity emptied out, that's a good opportunity to fix that breakout between the pot and jack. Again, force it open gently... I'd probably pry with something inserted through the holes, get some glue flowed in, and clamp firmly between two cauls. You want to press the inside, out, and give it a backstop, if that makes sense.

For the shielding in the cavity, before installing new parts; Alembic uses some really nice conductive silver paint. They can't sell you any or ship it by mail, so you'll have to source that. I learned the hard way, to buy some good shielding paint... it took me a couple tries. Stewart MacDonald sells little half-pint cans.

I'm with Jimmy J. on this... play on that bass a while, and get a little bit of education on what your options are for restoring the electronics. Installing them is fairly easy - no soldering required, all modular plugs. The trick is to fit everything in there and keep it quiet.

Stay on target... you're doing good!