Troubleshooting for 5 string Spoiler #86S4221

[pauldo]

Ed, welcome to the camp!
This is a great community, getting questions answered here is easy AND there is no such thing as a silly question*.
These instruments are designed to be adjusted. 

Here is an important note:
Pickup height adjustment functions with screws and no springs.  If you feel you need/ want to experiment with their height(s) proceed as follows..  Two diagonally opposed (and exposed) screw heads hold the pickup in position.  Loosen these prior to adjusting height.  In the opposite corners underneath the pickups are the height adjusters, turn them in (clockwise) to lower or turn them out to raise the heights.  When done carefully snug the exposed screw heads to secure the pickup.  SNUG is the key word, you do not want to over-tighten these (ask me how I know  ).






*The question; “Is it wrong to desire more than one Alembic?”, as you soon will discover, is kinda silly.

[Artgeckko]

Thank you fo the heads up Pauldo.  I figure I will video-ing the bass assembly prior to dismantling anything.  Alembics appear to have very particular arrangements, and well designed builds. 
Love it.  I’m a tinkerer, and have learned the hard way many times(over tighten..oh yeah…) some recoverable, some painfully not. 
Dont plan to be so brazen with this bass.
Can’t say how much I appreciate the well wishes and helpful hints. 
Great place this is!
Will definitely update once the bass arrives. 
Seriously nervous about it. 
Please keep the help coming for this newbie!

[Spoilers!]

Welcome Ed!  I look forward to seeing pics or videos of your bass.  As you can guess from my handle, I'm a big fan of Spoilers.

Ken

[Songdog]

You've probably found these already, but in case you haven't:

Information Related to All Instruments

Joey's Post on Setting Up Your Bass

For what it's worth - My Alembic is my easiest bass to set up. You shouldn't have any problems, just follow the instructions.

[Artgeckko]

Thanks for all the info! 

Sounds like set up is pretty much the same I follow with string height generally 3/32-4/32. 
I have one Rick 4003 which is just under 3/32 and plays very clean up and down the neck.  I have 3 of them, so i am used to the dual truss rod adjustments, but always love a good clear list to follow.
I am excited.  Supposed to be here 1-5 tomorrow.  Little concerned for its condition, but trying to keep from judging until its here.  I keep my basses spotless and tuned all the time, so I realize that’s not always a shared practice.  Just a bit of an obsession on my behalf for sure!
Hope to be sending some picture and video soon.
Again, thanks for all the guidance!

[Artgeckko]

Hey Alembic Club!

Wish I had a better story, but I suppose it could be worse...?
Where do I begin? 
First, let me say that the seller has been nothing but cool and is selling a bass that belonged to his dad, who passed away recently.
That said, this poor thing has seen better days for sure.
I spent the better part of all day and night just to clean it, just to discover more substantial issues.
Here's my list to fix it up..
Top to bottom...
Tuners...poor shape, rusted, pitted and somewhat broken... need replacement Gotoh tuners.
Headstock..crack in laminate between Mahogany and maple layers...  Headstock layers superglue and hope?
Neck, brass side markers covered by refinish neck issue?   Not sure.   This is suspect of refinish of bass, or fretboard issue...No idea whats going on here...Cleaned neck, fretboard and side...revealed the side dots...Took a long time to clean!
Brass, all tarnished and pitted...God bless Fritz polish...Looks much better now.  Will post before and after.
Btw, the brass Saddle in the bass is an impressive chunk of metal.  Wow. I was amazed taking it out of the bass of the mass of that piece.
Strings had rust on them...
Pickups, foam under decomposed, bridge pickup broken where PU was overtightened...replaced foam and replaced screw (wood screw replacement not correct, thankfully meal insert collet was still in cavity)
Nobs and electronics...(I will need help here.)  Knobs have been replaced with anodized gold dome style knobs...Not sure how to remove.
Pots are loose, as is the output jack, and it appears that the surface mahogany is cracked under one of the pots.UGH!

Looking for help from Club>>>

4 pots, top is push pull with detent?  I'm not sure of function, 2 have detents, 2 plain rotational pots.

Worked until about 230am, became bleary, so called it.
Will post pictures before / after hopefully tonight, which I'm sure will help with description.
In hindsight, maybe not the best purchase, but the bass, along with my 5 string experience look forward to forward progress!
As always, thank you for you help and any suggestions!
Will be working on it again tonight

[JimmyJ]

Hey Ed,

Congrats on the purchase.  Most of those issues sound cosmetic issues so don't make yourself crazy.  How does it feel?  We hope you have a great time playing it.

Just a couple comments and we'll need to see some pics before we can go further.  First, I think a Spoiler model traditionally only had a pickup selector switch, a volume control, a low-pass tone control and a Q-boost switch.  Here's info on a typical Spoiler:
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=280.0

The knobs...  If these are one-piece of metal with no removable cap and you see no set screw then we have to presume they are a "press-fit" style and should be removable with a tug.  Just be careful.  The pickup selector switch's knob should be different from the others because that shaft is much smaller than the pots.

The pickups...  I'm sorry to hear you've got a cracked one and I don't know what to suggest other than thinking about a replacement.  Normally there is no foam (or springs) in the pickup cavities.  As Pauldo described in detail above, they are meant to be held in place by adjusting the two opposite-corner screws below the pickup to the height you prefer, then gently snugging down the two remaining screws above the pickup to secure it in that position.

Pics when you can - at any stage of your cleanup.  You can't shock us because we've seen it all.   

Jimmy J

[Artgeckko]

Hello JimmyJ,

Thanks for the info and the encouragement.
Just put the bass back together after pretty much stripping it down to clean.  Strung up the bass, adjusted truss rods(pretty tight) backed off the tension to the point of no tension to get proper adjustment. adjusted bridge height and nut to spec.
The nut has a low string adjust screw and a high string adjust screw with a middle set screw covered with solder. (Pict)
Not sure if this is a mod or adjusting for a problem?  Believe the E/A/D string is a little lower than .22 feeler gauge and there still is some fret buzz, but trying to compensate by raising the nut string height for low B /E adjust.
Plugged it in and checked out the electronics.
Looks like knobs are press on ( will probably buy a knob puller to replace, because of top mahogany crack)  my best guess of the function of the four knobs, left to right, (TOP) Volume with push / pull low cut, pickup balance with detent, (bottom) LOW freq EQ, HIGH freq EQ.
All the pots are loose as is the output jack.
The pickups both work well, and it appears that the cracked pickup has been superglued and is stable.
The really good news is that once set up and tuned and plugged in, the bass sounds and feels pretty great.
The caveat being that I think the scale of the DR strings I put on is not correct,  too long?
The neck headstock crack is the biggest potential issue I can see.  My thought is thin super glue to stabilize / crack, thoughts?
Going to post pictures later, files are too large.

[Artgeckko]

a few more...some of the progress photos

[Artgeckko]

Last few for tonight. last picture is of the 85 Rick and the 86 Spoiler resting for the night

[JimmyJ]

Thanks for the pics.  You're doing a fine job on the tune-up.

A couple things... 

First, that split in the headstock laminate is concerning and you should standby for some more qualified comments about how to deal with that. 

Second, the nut is meant to be raised using the outer two adjustment screws and only gently held down by the center screw which in your case has been filled with solder.  My guess is that the previous owner didn't understand that loosening that center screw would allow you to raise the entire nut and their A-string got too low so they used solder (or silver solder?) to fill and recut that slot.  Do you have a blow-torch?  It would be nice to free that tiny bolt and regain adjustability.  I don't know how you got that piece off the bass because you have the nut, the plate, and the center screw with its threaded insert which is meant to remain in the wood.  You could also order a replacement nut but you may need to do some metal work to make it fit.

Lastly, there have been some changes in your electronics cavity and I can't quite understand what's happened there.  The pic below I found on the 'net is a standard Spoiler setup so you can see it's quite different from yours.  It's possible these were all factory mods but I really don't know.  Maybe Mica can eventually find the paperwork on this bass so we know how it was built and can figure out what has changed.

Keep up the good work!
Jimmy J

[edwardofhuncote]

Yep, that's the one I was expecting... it sure is a nice old bass. Koa basses are special! The very first Spoilers were solid Koa, theres your Alembic trivia note for today!


I'm wondering if that headstock got broken in transit, as I don't remember seeing that in the ad, or reading any mention of it. And this is a very big deal... it's a fairly easy thing to fix, but drastically affects value of the instrument, and should certainly have been disclosed before the sale.


That being said, it's simply a glue and clamp fix, that any competent repair shop should be able to perform. Squeeze some Titebond in there, and clamp firmly between two cork-lined cauls overnight. *DO NOT use CA glue (krazyglue/superglue/etc.) for this repair. Titebond wood glue.


The original pickups remain; that's good. Looks like the rest of the electronics have been swapped out for some aftermarket parts. Not the end of the world, these are replaceable secondhand, and you can play as-is until you source some. (this is kinda' what I did with my Persuader 5-string that had no original parts left at all...)


Again, Welcome to the Club. Nice to have another Ed around! Take your time and fix that old Dragon up. It'll give you years of joy.

[pauldo]

The subtle ‘tiger stripes’ on that top are beautiful!

[Artgeckko]

Hello,
Thanks for all the help and kudos!

I get the feeling that there has been a few embellishments done to the bass, so trying to return it back to what it once was.
The headstock crack is odd for sure.  Didn't see it in video, or in the many pictures I received.
The owner was very helpful to send pictures of my requests.  I took a picture of the headstock as well and its hard to see unless looking at angle, I suppose it could have also been damaged in transport, but it doesn't look particularly fresh. 
Either way, I'm putting my rolling forward hat on...

Ok, will go Titebond. 
Done a fair amount of wood work so believe I can handle this, plus Titebond is much easier to work with!
 
Electronics will suffice for now, until I can assess the pots and remove the knobs.  I see some spoiler hardware on Reverb?
I found a image of a black spoiler with 4 knobs similar to this one, but its the only one I've seen in this configuration.

Have some new tuners, knob puller, and some screws inbound.  the back access panel is also a poor replacement, screws don't line up, so will replace with better material.
The nut issue I can take a look at...it just kinda fell out when I took off the strings, which was disconcerting! 
Included the shot I took of the headstock...Cant really see the crack head on.
Another question, the top is Koa, body mahogany, yes?
I get why you all love these basses.  Well made, elegant, and somewhat easy to work on. 
In addition, there's the great body of knowledgable folks who support these instruments...that's priceless!
Many thanks

[edwardofhuncote]

I'll be glad to help you out if I can, Ed. No idea where in the land you are, but if you email me directly (use the little envelope next to my picture there...) I can send you a couple cam clamps and some adhesive backed cork to make a couple cauls with.If you've done some woodwork, I might can talk you through it. If by some chance you're within a drive of me, I'd be glad to fix it for you. My Persuader 5-string is a near-perfect copy of your bass, so it would be a great model to make cauls from if needed.



If you're gonna' give it a try; first, Get the tuning machines off and out of the way. Nut too. Logo and script. (you already had these off I think) Then make sure the break will close up... wiggle it gently, to make sure nothing foreign is trapped in the break that will prevent the grain fibers from bonding right back together and making a perfect glue joint. Pry it open, again very gently, and squeeze in the glue. Pinch it back together and wipe the excess glue. Place cauls on the headstock face and back, clamp firmly in place, I like to alternate the clamps to spread pressure evenly. You should see a nice bead of glue squeeze out all the way around. Wipe this as well as you can... dont worry too much, we'll get the rest of it after it dries. Some of it will draw back in as it cures. Leave it clamped up for 24 hours. It'll set in 30 minutes, but leave it under full pressure to cure. Unclamp and clean-up. Evaluate whether a finish touch-up is needed. Re-assemble. It takes an hour to set up and 10 seconds to do. Then a long wait, with years of reward.