"Ultra" low frequencies...

[growlypants]

Hello, everyone!  (Season's Greetings, and all that!)  I have a question.  And who better to ask than you guys!  On certain recorded music, I hear EXTREMELY low frequencies, and only on my wife's Ford Expedition car radio!!  (I think it's one of those fancy-schmancy billion watt things.)  I've got a few Bose systems in the house, and none of them seem capable of reproducing these ultra low frequencies I'm talking about.  So, it's only her car.  Now... assuming those frequencies ARE on the record (CD, excuse me.) what do I need in a home stereo that can handle those frequencies??  They're just awesome sounding, and, hey.  It's Christmas time!!  Is it high quality speakers together with high quality amplification, or what?  Hopefully, I won't have to knock out a wall and drive the car into my living room...   Thanks in advance.   

[el8ed]

I believe any decent home-theater subwoofer will be able to re-produce low frequencies that sound darn close to direct current. If you want it to still sound like music, maybe something like this will do: http://velodyneacoustics.com
Cheers,
Oliver

[pauldo]

If cost (and space) were no object, this would be my choice:
http://bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bassault-r.pdf





Guaranteed to give you a low end response that will please!  Ask me how I know! 

[cozmik_cowboy]

I have not kept up with home stereos lately, so can't recommend anything - but I will say that dating back to the days when the 901 inexplicably took the world by storm, I never heard a Bose-o product that impressed me.

Peter

[StephenR]

It's possible that her car stereo has an extreme eq curve/boost on the subsonic frequencies and low end to compensate for road noise and the system is tuned to the acoustic space of the car.

A good quality subwoofer can be a great addition to a home stereo if it is set up properly. Very easy to overdo the gain, you want to hear a slight natural sounding extension of the low end of the main speakers not the subwoofer itself. To my ears a home theater setup is not good for listening to music. Great for amplifying explosions etc. in movies but too colored for any serious music listening.

[David Houck]

I think this gets into frequencies and roll-off points; stuff that I can never remember.

The E string on a bass (E1) is 41.20Hz; a low D (D1) is 36.71; and a low B (B0) on a six string bass is 30.87.

The lowest note on a piano is A0 at 27.5Hz

Supposedly, the lowest frequency humans can hear under normal conditions is 20Hz, which is between an E0 and an Eb0.

For the last 14 years, I've have a Polk Audio powered 12" subwoofer in my stereo system.  I'm not sure which model it is, but a search suggests that the frequency range goes down to 30 or 32 Hz.  However, Polk doesn't show where, and how fast, the low end of the frequency range starts rolling off; so that number really doesn't tell us much.

I can say that when I play back the recordings I've made on my bass, the low D's come through nicely.

I'm guessing (I'm no audiophile, nor do I know what I'm talking about with regard to good low end stereo response) (plus, I have significant hearing loss, including low end loss in my right ear) that you may want a subwoofer to add to your stereo that goes down to around 30 Hz before dropping off (say within 3db of the speaker's overall range).

But then, what was the music you were listening to with the "extremely low frequencies"?  What instrument was producing the bass; and do you have an idea of what notes they were?

Another thing to look at; what is the frequency response of the speakers you currently have?  And do the specs show within what db range (i.e. +/- 3db) that range is within?

I'm hoping some of the more learned audiophiles in our community will chime in, as I can never remember any of this technical stuff.

[edwin]

I'd say most audio systems except Bose can do a credible job in reproducing low frequencies. It all depends on budget.

The Bag End ELF system is pretty cool, although I have discovered that the processor can degrade the sound somewhat. I have it in my studio, but I don't use the processor for the highs, just the low end. It's pretty amazing how it really gives you real low end instead of a one note boom that can be typical of ported consumer subs.

[hammer]

I'd have to agree with Peter with respect to Bose systems.  I've had Klipsch (Yes they took up 25% of the room and that's why my wife made me get rid of them), AR, Arx, and now Ohm and I have to say that for realistically sounding bass the Ohm subwoofer that I have is outstanding.  The presence is there but its not overemphasized.  Now if you want bass like the guy on truck who stopped next to me at a stoplight the other day where the doors vibrated and the bass looked like it was about ready to blow them off the truck than that's another matter.

[jazzyvee]

It's possible that her car stereo has an extreme eq curve/boost on the subsonic frequencies and low end to compensate for road noise and the system is tuned to the acoustic space of the car.

A good quality subwoofer can be a great addition to a home stereo if it is set up properly. Very easy to overdo the gain, you want to hear a slight natural sounding extension of the low end of the main speakers not the subwoofer itself. To my ears a home theater setup is not good for listening to music. Great for amplifying explosions etc. in movies but too colored for any serious music listening.

I agree playing CD's through a surround sound/home theatre system is not  a pleasant experience. I have a Yamaha system at home at the moment and I find the sound too unnatural sounding even when it's on the 2 channel Stereo setting. I think an audiophile guru needs to chip into this thread.
 

[811952]

The tail end of the song The Ladder by YES has some very deep bass that I've only really been able to hear in my long-departed Dodge Ram pickup truck.

At around 6:15-6:20 begins the deep sub-octave. Knowing it's there, I can kind of hear it, but probably it's just in my imagination. In the old truck though, oh my gosh it was definitely there.


So my guess is deep sub-octave processing is there as a treat for those who have the hardware, much like the inaudible (for the most part) Earthquake rumble boxes in older theaters?


John

[growlypants]

Thanks for all your thoughts.  Yes, the Bose (inherited from my deceased Father-in-Law...) has proven to be a little disappointing.  I have no way to actually PLAY those kind of lows (Moog?) but, I really do think they're impressive to hear.  My Alembic 5-er, while certainly capable of hitting the low B with crystal clear definition (And I'm only playing through GK w/2 12's) can't approach the frequencies  I'm talking about.  I'll try listening to some demo systems out there, and perhaps a sub-woofer of some kind will fill the bill.  You're probably right about the car... compensating for road noise, and all.  But, if I can hear 'em there, I' want to be able to hear 'em inside!!

[811952]

It could also easily have everything to do with the room your stereo is in as well. But, yeah, some of the car stereo stuff is kind of amazing in terms of what they can get out of a pair of 12s in an isobaric configuration and such. Those systems are also tweaked for that exact space, which makes a difference. I imagine the response curves are pretty jagged to get what they're after, and they don't need to design car systems around the possibility of a living/listening room installation.


The best system I've ever had consistent access to was a Carver setup with a pair of Ohm Walsh 2 cabinets and a Cerwin-Vega subwoofer. It never seemed lacking. Of course, by brother's system with a pair of EV TRX-15 drivers in huge cabinets was and probably still is the gold standard as far as my ears (and butt, and furniture moving itself around the room) are concerned.


What always struck me when I did a bit of playing at Producers Workshop back in the day was how flat (and flat-sounding, of course, to a young man's ears) the monitors were, but that they went as low as they did.


John

[edwin]

I have three subwoofer setups:

1) Bag End: a double 10 cabinet with the ELF processor. Fantastic low end. I think the processor could be better, in terms of sound quality. The high frequency outputs lose a lot of clarity. I use them with either Bag End MM8s or an NHT M-20 setup. I am curious about playing my bass through this sub, although due to the steep filter, it probably won't get to concert levels.
2) Tannoy: TS-8. It's a prosumer home studio sub. It actually works quite well. I had it in my home stereo for a while. I'll probably be selling it because my home stereo speakers are fine on the low end themselves (Avalon NP2) and I have gone to Mcintosh tube power instead of more modern solid state.
3) Dick Sequerra custom made sealed box 12" subs: I got these in trade for some bass lessons. They work pretty well in my home studio. I like having stereo subs. I think it makes a difference.

[StephenR]

A friend of mine has an amazing stereo system installed in a room he designed and built specifically to be an acoustic match for his equipment. The subwoofers in his system are two vertical columns that each contain six 12" speakers. Each side is powered by a huge monoblock tube power amp connected by cables as thick as my arm. System sounds amazing. Since the speakers are a dipole design you don't hear the speaker itself just the music in the room which sounds completely smooth, natural and integrated with no apparent source for where the sound is coming from. Here is a link to a description of the speakers though his are an earlier generation and look slightly different cosmetically.

http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/prime.html

[growlypants]

...and to answer Dave Houck's question about what specific music I'm referring to, Jon Pardi - "Dirt on my Boots".  It's just a country song, but, MAN!!  The lows are unbelievable, starting around the second verse.