Author Topic: Jan 1, 2005 Price Increase? (Read 1259 times)

rraymond · « **Reply #45 on:** October 29, 2004, 03:16:50 PM »

What I haven't seen mentioned here is, that as Alembic has raised prices through the years they've also added to the basic feature sets of the various models. For example, all the models have an accent veneer now; my '80 Series 1 is maple on mahogany (it's still beautiful, of course.) That's a cool way of cushioning the blow of a price increase!

Thought I'd toss that out there, have fun all...

kmh364 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 29, 2004, 04:04:02 PM »

Just for sh*ts and giggles: for those of us that missed what the old prices were, what was the percentage of increase of MSRP when the prices were raised last time ca. April '03?

bsee · « **Reply #47 on:** October 29, 2004, 04:39:44 PM »

Beware - various ramblings ahead....

The down side of this increase is that the entry level Alembic will now have a base price of about $3K, and the lowest-priced neck-thru bass will be over $4K. The Orion guitar will go from $3200 to $3700 or so. That's a big jump to occur all at once, and it's especially tough on the guitar side where Alembic is already a rarity in the market.

Taking the previous increase into account, an Alembic purchased in 2/2005 will be approximately 26.5% more expensive that one purchased in 2/2003. It's true that there was some period of time before the 2003 increase and that there's likely to be some period of time before the next one, but that's a pretty steep change for a time during which inflation is supposedly pretty low. In fact, over the past ten years the inflation rate has hovered around an average of 2.5% annually. Fuel prices have been crazy recently, and if they are the primary cause of this increase, does that mean the price increase will roll back if gas prices drop again?

It is my belief that the electronics package is the true wizardry of Alembic that no one else can duplicate. Yes, the instruments are beautiful end to end, but there are other luthiers who build well, too. They can get similar woods and carve/glue some nice instruments, but they can't match the electronics. Am I going to have to go to someone else to build my custom with a set of Signature electronics that I buy from Alembic because I will save 30% or more in doing so? Maybe even buy something like a Peavey TL-5 and order up a set of electronics for it, which would save me even more?

I do not believe that Alembic should have a need to raise prices at this point. As a consumer, I would rather see Alembic back off on the value of monthly specials and close some of the pricing loopholes that create inequity in the system. I have noticed that recent specials haven't been as appealing, and maybe that's just luck of the draw. In any case, I think the system would be more fair if everyone paid the right price rather than some buyers getting special deals and other picking up the tab. I, for one, have been waiting a long time for one of two monthly specials to come around before placing my order. I don't know if these specials are even still in the hat at this point. I didn't receive a straight answer when I asked, but it would be very interesting to know if things like 50% off two options and 20% of instrument value applied to options are still in the hat. If I knew they weren't I would have ordered already. I may end up waiting a long time for nothing. If I end up forced to place my order in December or January 3rd in order to get the avoid 15% price increse special, it will significantly reduce the quality of my customer experience. To be concise, I am saying that Alembic has lost business over recent months because of this monthly special policy. The difference for me between the right special and a meaningless one would be around $2000 at list price. Wouldn't you think that eliminating this would eliminate the need to bump prices?

Also, regarding the specials, I have a recollection of when this policy appeared. I thought the deal was that there were a finite handful of specials in the hat, and that once pulled, the special would drop out of circulation for several months before returning. I don't remember the exact specifics. In any case, you could be reasonably confident that a special you were waiting for would come up within a year. Specials that would have triggered my purchase came up three times in 2002 and three more in 2003, but have not appeared in 2004. My bad luck, or did they fall out of the hat? While knowing ahead of time what next month's special will be might not be good for business, I do believe that it would be fair and reasonable for us to know what has a chance of coming up, especially if these specials are still chosen at random.

Also, there's an inequity that lets you build the exact same instrument for different prices depending upon which model you start your customizations from. The difference can be on the order of five to ten percent, and is again at the mercy of the monthly special. In my Alembic pricing world, you would be able to select your body shape, woods, electronics package, and other options and end up with a single price. Then, Alembic would be able to name the bass according to the feature set. An MK deluxe ordered with S2 electronics would be named and priced accordingly. As an example, why should the difference in price between purpleheart and ebony laminates on a signature deluxe be $1250, but only be $1050 if you start from a signature standard?

Also, there are some options that are related. In particular, the body shape can put restrictions on electronics and neck length. This creates an odd restriction on Essence and SC basses. An SC must have a short neck, but it can have a different body which should allow it to have a longer neck. An Essence can't have Series electronics, but it can have a different body shape that would allow it. I guess my point is that it is that the way customizations are presented seems inconsistent and abusable.

To get back to the main point, I believe that cleaning up the option policies and shrinking the monthly specials should provide enough of an increase in net to eliminate the need for a price increase at this time. I also fear that the backlash from this price increase could reduce future demand enough that the overall result could be negative, but that would take a lot of data I don't have to evaluate.

Just my opinion and no offense intended to anyone, especially the good folks at Alembic. I still have three chances to catch the right special if they pull it early enough in January (Maybe they will pull January's a week early and let us select from either of the two specials for the last week of the year as a pre-increase holiday gift)...

-Bob

kmh364 · « **Reply #48 on:** October 29, 2004, 04:55:10 PM »

You're not alone, Bob. I waited for that 20%-off special to order my Custom Orion and I've been waiting for it to re-appear to order my guitar. I hope it pops up before the increase as that represents a CONSIDERABLE savings on a high-dollar instrument: enough of a savings to make the affordability of my purchase a reality. Cheapskates like me live for specials like that, LOL!

bsee · « **Reply #49 on:** October 29, 2004, 07:02:34 PM »

hmm... I have received private messages questioning my numbers relative to the 4/2003 price increase. My recollection was that it was about 10%, though I am told that some items went up by significantly more. Not that it really matters at this point. It is what it is, and it will be what it will be.

dannobasso · « **Reply #50 on:** October 29, 2004, 09:19:19 PM »

Hey folks, like the lottery, you gotta be in it to win it! I always look for the led special. It's the luck of the draw you see. Also consider the cost increases passed on by supplies for fuel and energy. It now costs more to get that cocobolo out of the forest and cut it into slabs then it did a while ago. UPS etc. charges more to deliver any raw components and the list goes on. Health insurance cost more. In Cali, the taxes on small business are perverse! I mean PERVERSE! These folks are keeping the jobs in America. Cha ching! We usually get paid more on average than folks in other than the first world. We don't have to explain to someone that our bass wasn't the one made in Korea, no really you can tell by the serial number! OK we do have to explain that it's not Greek. No! Not like the games torch thing, more like the Wizard, alchemist thing.... Merlin....you ever heard of him? Oh never mind. It still kicks major tail! I suppose that all this venting is moot. My deposit is down, my specs are noted and Susan is gracious enough to make a vision I have come to stunning reality (after it gets to the other artists there). So....... if I have to wait a bit, so be it. I locked in the price because I Want This Bass. I can get endorsements. Don't want em'. Could I make money playing something else, maybe. I save that for the amp deal. Just not Peavy! ( Don't hex me so that I get offered that) But alas I must return to my Ramen Noodles so I can save for the body inlay on #11. Can't sleep......gotta work for the bass....can't sleep.......gotta work for the bass. Cool, I have Sunday off to play my basses! Only 69 hours this week. Hardly like work at all. Peace and prosperity to you all.
Danno

bigredbass · « **Reply #51 on:** October 29, 2004, 10:47:31 PM »

Folks, ALEMBIC is a business.

The best always costs more. And a small business dealing in exotic, handbuilt one-offs, employing a cadre of artists using dreadfully expensive hardwoods and mil-spec electronics will hardly fit the business model of a streamlined production house using considerably down-market materials and less expensive personnel. Overlay these parameters over the usual small business problems, and this is not hard to understand at all.

I hardly think anyone who is in the position to commission a $5-$20k instrument is gonna suddenly go somewhere else for a grand difference in price, IF they MUST have an ALEMBIC. These are VERY specialized pieces, and they are NOT for everybody.

For those like me, I'm happy to let the market take its course. Time will tell what the traffic will bear, and of course they are terrific buys in the used market. Remember, Dusenberg remained back ordered at the height of the Great Depression. Bosendorfers are back ordered now. People still custom-order new Browning Superposed over and unders for several multiples of their original price. Quality and service and ingenuity are more and more rare in this world. But there will always be a market for the very best.

J o e y

flaxattack · « **Reply #52 on:** October 29, 2004, 10:56:16 PM »

being in sales for 30 yrs, i love when the customer thinks they can drive the bus...

bsee · « **Reply #53 on:** October 30, 2004, 12:21:15 AM »

Jeff, it seems you're probably talking about my post. What I know at this point is that I said what I felt, in particular that the current situation is having a negative impact on my buying decision. If that isn't critical information to a sales team, I don't know what is. Additionally, I have received support for my position and ideas, both publicly and privately. It seems that there are a few people unwilling to speak their minds publicly for fear of abuse and/or sanctions.

I suspect that several of us here have a great deal of experience in business. Experience in sales, service and customer retention. One would think from your post that in 30 years of sales you never heard a productive idea from one of your customers. One thing I have learned is that there are very few mind readers in the world. In short, most companies seem to appreciate hearing from their customers rather than trying to make them feel like idiots for speaking up.

poor_nigel · « **Reply #54 on:** October 30, 2004, 02:01:31 AM »

In the company I work for, everyone drives the bus. From the CEO to the packers of our products to, and particularly, our customers, all input is regarded essential to our success and growth. That is how a company grows, develops goodwill, and can provide their customers with products that match their needs, most closely. I have not spoken up, much, because of a recent, personal event that pretty much makes the whole matter to me a moot point. However, everyone has the right and deserves to voice their own opinions.

As far as the situation with the price increase, I agree with Bob. When times get tough, companies need to make tough decisions. Prices can be raised, or selling and/or distribution structure, manufacturing elements, or ways to make the company more efficient can be altered to stay solvent. The company has every right to charge what they feel the market will bear, and consumers have every right to buy or go elsewhere. These are all givens. Dusenberg and Bugatti - probably the most wonderful automobiles that were ever made. Let's hope Alembic does not become the most wonderful instruments that 'were' ever made. Hey, I remembered the high frequency crowd here. Old dog/new trick - good boy!

The price increase is a done deal. It was announced publicly. Someone else I agreed with in this thread is Paul TBO ? ?Oh well ...I am glad someone brought up some messy Alembic stuff in this hail-and-glory choir of low frequency addicts. Hehehe ...if we keep on communicating like this ....this world would be a better place? I did not take this as funny, but as wisdom. Once the messy stuff is out of the way, the fun stuff is what?s left. So let?s discuss/clear the messy and get back to the fun.

Note: I may not agree with some opinions expressed, but I do try and see their point. In the end, we all have much more in common here, than in differences - or we would not be members of this club. I especially appreciated Paul's (Slacker42uk) posts, as now that he expressed his frustration, he can move forward and maybe try Alembics that are tweaked for his playing style/needs and change his opinion of them. Welcome Paul.

One increase I would love would be in my checking through what I write before hitting the Post button. Old dog - bad boy!

(Message edited by poor_nigel on October 30, 2004)

the_mule · « **Reply #55 on:** October 30, 2004, 04:26:20 AM »

Please don't get me wrong, I love my instruments and respect Alembic as a company, but I'm really disappointed about this price increase. For me personally, it means that normally I won't be able to custom order an Alembic and/or purchase a new Alembic anymore (unless I win a lottery or something).

My 1999 Orion, which I bought new, but N.O.S. and therefore priced like before the 2003 increase, would cost me about $2000 more if I would want to buy it after Jan 5th 2005. And that's just a 'plain' standard Orion 4, no custom options at all. From now on, it'll be looking out for 'the one' on the secondhand market. There's nothing wrong with that off course, and I'm aware of the fact that I'm very lucky just to own a few fabulous Alembics already, but taking that final step of ordering one to my (modest) specs and wishes I always dreamed of becomes virtually impossible...

Wilfred

slacker42uk · « **Reply #56 on:** October 30, 2004, 06:40:00 AM »

oh mother of crap!i have really started something here!

echo008 · « **Reply #57 on:** October 30, 2004, 07:48:31 AM »

Alembic is able to accomplish on a larger scale the same quality (and then some) and choice of options that alot of the smaller builders have you waiting a year for (even the less expensive models).
There is a timelessness about there body designs and just the overall Build quality (not to mention that one of a kind tone) that truly make them Special.
Is it worth 15% more ... thats a matter personal opinion. But I know that it would not stop me from ordering one again when I am able.
Alembic is not the end all be all for me ...but they come damn close!
- Tom

ajdover · « **Reply #58 on:** October 30, 2004, 07:54:37 AM »

I think the bottom line here is the following:

1 - Alembic raised prices because it had to in light of any number of company, business, and world economic (e.g., rising fuel prices) reasons.

2 - Those who've decided that a new Alembic in light of price increases is too rich for their blood will turn to the used market for the one instrument they've been looking for as an alternative.

3 - Those who want a new Alembic will buy one, regardless of price, though it may take longer now for most to acquire the funds to make such a transaction possible.

4 - Alembics will remain amongst the finest, if not the finest instruments made as a result of this price increase. Had prices not increased, cuts would have been made somewhere (e.g., laying off workers, cutting corners, etc.) to make business ends meet. And nobody in this club, I think, wants to see that happen.

5 - Customers are always right. If companies don't give the customer what they want, be it features, service, quality, price, etc., customers will go elsewhere. Each customer values something more than another (price vs. quality, service vs. features, etc.) and will make a sacrifice in one area in order to acquire the product whose strengths in another outweigh it. In other words, while an Alembic might be too expensive for one customer, the quality might be the deciding purchase factor for another, price be damned.

Some in this club know I plan to become a chef when I retire from the military in a few years. If it's one thing I've learned, it's that the customer is always right (well, most of the time, anyway!). If you look at what we here in America eat, you will find that most people don't necessarily want quality, they want quantity and low prices. This is how you end up with places like Friday's, Applebee's, Outback Steakhouse, etc., who produce lots of food, but not of very high quality at low prices (NOTE: I'm not picking on anyone who patronizes these places here. I don't go to them because I feel for me, personally, the food they produce isn't very good. If others here like them, and happily go there, so be it. It is a personal decision for me only.) They're giving people what they believe (and market research confirms) they want -if they didn't they'd be out of business. Similarly, I think Alembic recognizes this and in order to give musicians what they want (high quality, custom hand made instruments with an individual personality), they have to raise prices in order to maintain the deservedly high reputation they've established. If they don't, word will get out of lowered standards, quality will suffer, and the downward spiral towards mediocrity and eventual loss of business will begin.

For me, I would rather pay more, say $2K or so more for an Alembic rather than go and buy three Fenders for that same price. Sure, I'd get three basses, but they wouldn't have the same quality, craftsmanship, and playability that even a garden variety Alembic does. Speaking only for myself, I'll take the time to save the money to buy my dream Alembic rather than buy a bunch of cheaper, less quality instruments. As I've said before, one gets what one pays for. And I agree with others that there will always be a market for high quality, custom items. Alembic has nothing to worry about if you ask me.

My two cents,

Alan

pas · « **Reply #59 on:** October 30, 2004, 08:32:19 AM »

I had this discussion with Susan when I ordered my custom back in '99. At the time I ordered it, there was a price increase to go in effect at the beginning of the following month - October '99 I believe.

As a small business, they really can only go in 1 of 2 directions - more units at less cost - quantity; or a limited number of units at greater cost - quality.

One of the things I've always despised about American business in general is the preference for quantity over quality & the false rationalizations or in many instances, outright lying...that you can have both. From a business standpoint, GREED is the driving force behind the quantity over quality quandry.

In my mind, Alembic has always stood for uncompromised QUALITY...practically an anachronism in America today. Integrity...what a concept! I feel so strongly about it, that I've been giving them free advertising for the last 20 years - my Virginia license plates - ALEMBIC.

I guess my preference for Quality over Quantity is clear. The practical effect of the increase, coupled with a decided downturn in my economic circumstances over the last 2 years has definitely taken me out of the market for the forseeable future. However, it's good to know that when my ship comes in again...so to speak...that Alembic will still be about quality, rather than selling out in order to become a household name.