Author Topic: Anyone Playing Schroeder Cabinets? (Read 650 times)

davekoch · « **on:** January 03, 2005, 10:59:39 AM »

In my search for a new 410, I been reading good reviews on the Schroeder cabs. Know anyone that uses them? Why the angled speakers? Are they smaller than the usual 410 box? They seem to require a LOT of power. Prices, weight, dimensions, etc. Compared to Acme Low B-4, Epifini, Aguilar, EA, Eden, etc. Anyone?

bsee · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2005, 12:31:46 PM »

They are not much smaller than the regular 4x10 even though all of the 10s aren't front-facing, but they do seem to be lighter even without using neo speakers. The measurements are 23x23x16 and 78 lbs. Compare that with some other cabinets:

Eden 410T: 23x23x18.5, 90 lbs
Eden 410XLT: 23x27.5x18.5, 98 lbs
Eden 410XST: 23x25x18.5, 95 lbs
Aguilar GS410: 28.25x22.50x16.625, 98 lbs
Aguilar S410: 24x22.50x16.625, 83 lbs

So it's in the ballpark. Power wise, I am told that while they can handle a lot of power, they are also pretty efficient and don't necessarily require that much power. I suppose it depends on how loud you want to go.

The Schroeder site is at http://www.schroedercabinets.com and has limited information. On the other hand, there's a thread over at Talkbass discussing these cabinets that has over 1000 posts on it. It's at http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133045. One key claim from the thread is that these cabinets sound much bigger than they are. The claim is that a 4x10 can replace a stack, and the smaller 1210 (23x16x16, 47 lbs) can replace a 4x10. Another is that these cabinets project very clearly.

I am seriously considering either a 1210 or a 1212 to pair with my Super Redhead as an extension cabinet (both are 4 ohm) to add some more low end. That will feed the cabinet 225 watts, and I am told that it's enough to make it sing. On the other hand, I am also considering a Stewart World 2.1 power amp and doing away with the Super Redhead all together. He has frequency response curves for the individual speaker components and the 12 looks stronger all the way across the range compared to the 10. Unfortunately, there's no similar spec sheet for the cabinets.

With all the hoopla at the Talkbass site, I was hoping that some of our Alembic users would actually have tried these things to give a hands-on report, but it hasn't seemed like it so far.

davekoch · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2005, 03:16:14 PM »

Jorg emailed me back and mentioned his 410 is louder than the Eden 410XLT. Being I've heard Edens are among the loudest cabs out there, this cab must really rock. I must look into this.

bassman10096 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2005, 05:01:57 AM »

These little guys really look interesting. I'd love to hear more (I guess after NAMM). I've always believed there were design alternatives that could provide significantly boosted performance with a modest size, weight and driver sizes.

I used to have a Karlson cab with a single 15 that kicked out a very strong and even tone, compared to traditional vented cabs (http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/10004.html?1084241382). It combined a folded horn (picking up the sound off the back of the single driver) and a cleverly designed horn design off the front of the driver. Good sound. The problem was that all this engineering led to a HEAVY box (it contained about 50% more plywood, once you added in the weight of all the extra baffles inside).
If someone has found a better way to capitalize on untapped design potential (and solved for the extra manufacturing cost and kept the weight down), that's really exciting.

davekoch · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2005, 11:10:20 AM »

Yes, it is exciting, and Jorg seems to be reputable. I think I'll buy a 410. It's as light as the Acme B-4 (78 pounds), specs seem good (will handle the low B well enough - seems like the Acme might be better on the low B), and the box is a little smaller than my Eden 410T. But of course, hearing/gigging is the real proof. I've read some of the TB megathread. I keep hearing that they sound very good, cut through in a live band, and they're loud (I can always turn down ;-). I nearly bought an Acme last week. But, I'm feeling more inclined to buy the Schroeder. It seems to be workhorse cab, which is what I look for in a cab - as compared to a boutique cab. (Yikes, I'm rambling - hope it's not just GAS.)

bsee · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2005, 12:52:44 PM »

If you ask on TB, you might find that someone in your neighborhood has one that you can see/hear. They also have a liberal return policy, though you do eat a lot of shipping cost.

davekoch · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2005, 08:54:37 PM »

After speaking with Jorg this afternoon, he seems very nice and straight-up. I ordered a Schroeder 410 tonight. I'm excited. Thanks for all your input!

bsee · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2005, 09:17:48 PM »

Let us know when you get it! I am really thinking hard about one of the smaller ones. Will you have it soon, or is there a wait for it to be built?

davekoch · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2005, 02:31:28 PM »

Jorg said he can send it out before the NAMM show. So, I'm guessing it should arrive within a couple weeks. I'll let you know how it sounds. Again, to all of you, you've been soooooooooooo helpful to me in my gear search. I do thank you!! Very, very smart, kind, and polite forum (my favorite combination). Without a doubt, the best forum I'm aware of. And I've tried a few of them.

Dave

gare · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2005, 03:18:33 PM »

Dave,
Please do let us know your findings on these cabinets. I'm also giving alot of consideration to the 1210.
Tried wading thru the mega-thread on TB..gave up at about page 47.
Gary

davekoch · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2005, 04:23:36 PM »

Gary,
Sure will. I made it through a bit of it also. Definitely need high-speed access for that one.
Dave

gare · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2005, 06:13:19 AM »

Dave,
Did you get er ?

davekoch · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2005, 07:27:35 AM »

I received my Schroeder 410 yesterday. After 1/2 hour of comparing (using F1X/PLX1602) it to my Eden 410T, I took my Eden 410T out to be consigned. The Schroeder 410 is definitely a keeper - it's a no-brainer. The low end (40mhz) is so much better, stronger, cleaner with a whole lotta punch. The F1X makes the highs warm and clean. It doesn't have that Eden high-end sizzle, as someone here referred to. It also seems a LOT louder, while retaining the same definition as it get louder. With my Eden, my Modulus VJ sounded warmer than my Modulus M92 5-string (pre-Sweet Spot). But with the Schroeder, the M92 immediately sounded great throughout the entire range. I probably just haven't dialed in the VJ settings yet (SD Pro-Active pups with J-Retro Deluxe pre).

gare · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2005, 02:50:15 PM »

Dave
Congrats..thanks for the mini review. I just ordered a 1210 cabinet, hopefully that will let me a achieve the sound level etc and be able to get rid of the Mesa cabinets. I spoke to Jorg,very nice guy,he lead me to believe I could get the results I'm looking for,since I use mostly a 4x10 cabinet now. From 90 to 47 lbs..I like that.

bsee · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2005, 03:43:22 PM »

The discussion I had with him has me leaning toward the 1212. Here's what I got out of it:

The 1210 is easier to get a good sound out of in rooms with bad acoustics. It tightens up more quickly, so you hear it better if you have to stand right next to it.

The 1212 is a bit louder with better bottom for the same amount of power input. It can be EQed to sound very much like the 1210 if you want that, but it takes a bit more fiddling to get the cut-through tone. If you're standing at least 5 feet away from it, yo'll hear it just fine, but it does take a little bit of space.

What all this means in practice? Only your ears can tell you. I suspect that the 1210 will be a little tighter and teh 1212 a bit warmer/rounder. Kind of like the difference between a traditional 4x10 and a 2x15 (my words, not his).

I looked at the specs for the driver, and the 12 seems to have a flatter response throughout the entire range that the 10 covers and then some. Both seem to have a Q-switch like hump in their curves around 2K. The hump is more pronounced with the 10, and response has really fallen off by 4K where the 12 reamins strong and only starts to fall off at 4K. I don't know what the crossover to the horn looks like to know if the higher frequency power even matters.

Take a look here: http://www.schroedercabinets.com/drivers.htm

Of course, that doesn't represent the response of the cabinet, just that of the drivers themselves. Who knows if I am even interpreting this in a reasonable fashion.

Jorg does say that these cabinets sound great with as little as 200 watts pumped through them, so there's not much incentive to really crank up the power, even though they can handle it. I think if I were using just the one cab with a four string, I'd go 1210. With a five, I'd favor the 1212, but that's just gut feel.