Author Topic: How long would you wait? (Read 842 times)

jorge_s · « **on:** March 04, 2005, 02:18:22 PM »

Dealing with Alembic is a dream. They will built my instrument and even stuck to the time-frame they quoted me. It was roughly about four months. Lately I paid for another custom instrument (from a different company). They also quoted me four months. It has now been two years and it is still not completed. I'm curious to know if anyone has waited as long for an instrument to be built.

Bradley Young · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2005, 02:49:37 PM »

I think our own Bob Novy waited for an Alembic that long.

Of course, his bass is just a teeny tiny bit custom. =)

Brad

bsee · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2005, 03:22:06 PM »

Off the cuff, I would say that's pretty outrageous. Do you at least have proof of progress and some good explanation of what's taking so long? If they blew the thing up with some major error or bad luck and had to restart from the beginning, six times the quoted duration would still be outrageous.

In any case, you've had a lot of time to have several discussions with them about status. I would wait to hear more from you about the tone and nature of those discussions before passing judgement on the builder, but it doesn't sound good so far.

At this point, though, I would probably request a full refund with an offer to buy the bass for maybe 75% of the original price if they ever finish producing it.

lothartu · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2005, 04:19:56 PM »

If you haven't been changing your mind every few months and calling them to say can you just make this one little change then I say that any amount of time past the quoted build time is too long without a good excuse.

If I were in your position I would seriously consider the previous posters suggestion; except I would get the full refund and not purchase the instrument even at a discounted rate.

- Jim

rami · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2005, 04:38:30 PM »

The wait is really brutal. It's the single most contentious part of the whole project. My Alembic experience has been that of dealing with really genuine people who are extremely friendly, eager to help, not to mention very generous and supportive. I consider them all very dear friends.
But the wait (going on 3 years now) has definitely soured my interest in building any future projects. My other musician friends see what I'm going through and none of them want to build custom Alembics. It's a shame, because it reflects poorly on the reputation of this truly iconic company. And that's alot of money that won't be spent on Alembics (and believe me, these guys can spend).
A custom instrument from Alembic (or any other manufacturer) costs a small fortune, and if I had to do it all again, I don't think I would. I'd stick with the Alembics I got from my dealer - which are awesome in their own right. They're better than anything else out there.
In the end business is business, friendship is friendship.
I would never do business that way.

Rami

jorge_s · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2005, 04:41:41 PM »

Well, this is my dilema. This luthier is by far one of the most respected innovators of oue time. There is no question about it. At the time I spoke to him I was quite humbled he would agree to make me an instrument. The request I made that supposedly delayed the project was to incorporate Roland GK electronics. However, that was a year ago. At the time he said the instrument was almost finished. He was only waiting for some parts from Roland.

dannobasso · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2005, 05:05:44 PM »

I have waited many months on various basses. It gets easier as I mellow about it. I waited 20 months for a repair and refret from a local guy. His response was You said you weren't in a rush.
Maybe that's why I acquired a bunch of instruments over the years. Always enough toys to play with while I wait. If you put down significant cash you can bet it has already been used for whatever . Now sometimes if they have to wait for it.......
Hope you get what you paid for and it gives you years of joy. Think of it as along engagement and the date hasn't been set yet. Sorry, I do sound for wedding bands too much!
Danno
(waiting on my 11th Alembic, but it's gonna be friggin' wicked!)

bigredbass · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2005, 10:55:19 PM »

Myself, I'm happy to buy 'off the rack', not to mention there's usually a barely used ALEMBIC that someone bought and realized they were in over their head and the old PBass wasn't so bad after all . . . plus he ate the depreciation and I can get a good deal on it.

From my time spent around various builders, I can tell you that there are custom instruments and there are CUSTOM INSTRUMENTS. Let me explain:

Custom instruments are the equivalent of ordering wheat toast instead of white toast with your breakfast at Denny's. You want a different color, a slightly different wiring/pickup layout, different frets. But basically what you've asked for has ALREADY BEEN DONE quite a few times and the builder sees this as just one more time. For instance, an EXCEL with Jazz pickups and an inline headstock.

CUSTOM INSTRUMENTS are another animal, because now you are boldly going where no customer has gone before. New template. Wiring/pickup layout that would boggle the phone company's techs. Really specific wood/figure from the land of UnObtainium. Stainless steel ukelele frets. You can see where I'm going with this: It just takes a lot of time to order EVERYTHING 'off the menu'. You are ordering an extremely personalized instrument with naturally no regard to the builder's shop routine, parts ordering, production schedules, etc.

And these problems often make it impossible to reasonably accomodate a customer who just expects these things to hatch perfectly in short order. This kind of thing is in no ways limited to ALEMBIC: When I worked at Gibson, a world-famous guitar hero refused and sent back six Custom Shop Flame Top Les Pauls made especially for him at his request (all six to die for, would have sold for 25 grand each at Gruhn's) because the bodies were ONE-EIGHTH of an inch too thick!

IF I were in a position to order an ALEMBIC just for me, I wouldn't care how long it took once Mica or Susan gave me the straight of the schedule. Art can't be rushed, and there's just a LOT more to life than agonizing about the grain of this or that piece of wood, or how much longer is this gonna take. I'd simply trust them to do their magic one more time, and I would be a little careful about nagging the magician about just when is that rabbit coming out of the hat!

J o e y

jorge_s · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2005, 05:39:27 AM »

Thanks Joey, I'll follow your advise. I think it will be worth it in the end.

rogertvr · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2005, 07:10:01 AM »

When I first ordered The Dragon's Wing in February 2003, I was quoted June 2003 for delivery. It wasn't finished until Jan/Feb 2004 - big deal. I would have waited another two years if I'd had to. It's a work of art, everyone who sees it in the wood (i.e. face to face) drags their jaw along the floor. It's awesome and awesome doesn't happen overnight does it?

Re: Rami's comment They're better than anything else out there - I have to say that my Status Graphite Buzzard completely annihilates the DW from a sonic point of view. In fact, so does my Status Graphite Stealth headless. There is a certain sound the DW has though that I can't seem to reproduce on anything else, the same way that my 4001 is well....it's a 4001.

Would I start the DW project again and be prepared to go through the pleasure, the pain, the wait? No brainer - for sure, I'd do the whole thing again and would I change anything? No, I'm not sure I would. Don't be afraid of custom Alembic projects folks, just be prepared for a wait - but it's worth that wait! Trust me!

It's a beautiful instrument, a once in a lifetime event. And patience is most definitely a virtue!

Cheers,

Rog

rami · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2005, 08:09:36 AM »

Hey Rog,

I suppose the best sounding Bass is really a personal and subjective issue. In my humble opinion, my Dark Prince Bass is the best sounding, best playing Bass that I have ever played in my life. To hear it completely justifies it's astronomical cost. As you observed, it's truly a once in a lifetime and timeless work of art - something that I hope will become a family heirloom. BUT..... since the time that I first received it to the present, it has spent more time at Alembic undergoing repairs than here with me being played! Admittedly, it's problems were relatively minor: the first time it was sent back for a minor problem with the finish lifting at the tuning pegs and in some areas around the body. That took about a year before it was returned to me. Then, when I received it back, the front pickup was not working and the same problem with the finish had started again! As of now, it remains once again at Alembic and God only knows when I'll ever see it again and what other grief I'll be dealing with. I already have a bad feeling about the current Black Byrd project and expect more of the same headaches I've been having with my first two customs. As great as they sound and feel and play, if I had to do it all over again knowing what I know now - no way! I already regret the money spent on them and if asking for a refund was an option I would. As of now, my emails do not get replied to, I don't get any updates. I consider these as expensive and painful losses. I'm very disappointed.

Rami

rogertvr · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2005, 08:22:08 AM »

WOW! That is quite some story, Rami. I can understand that you are (quite rightly) disappointed with this situation. I would be too...

bsee · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2005, 09:42:58 AM »

Rami-

I certainly understand your frustration. In some sense, it's the price to be paid for really pushing the envelope. I suspect that Alembic is probably not too happy with this situation either. I would guess that the labor that has gone into your instruments probably exceeded what was forecasted and they have become a labor of love more than an instrument of profit.

The one thing that no company should ever do is ignore their customers. I realize that things have been hectic over there the past several months with the flurry of activity at the end of the year, but it sounds like they could communicate better.

Hang in there, I'm sure they'll make it right for you!

-Bob

flaxattack · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2005, 12:36:45 PM »

i am about at the six month point on the direwolf. the original quote was 8 weeks. i did make some changes. Add in another 2 months prior to ordering for design and special of the month waiting.Am i happy? of course not. my last promise from susan was week of feb 21st, then jim broke his toe.how he makes inlays with his toes is beyond me-lol- apologies were made. the big joke now amongst my band is will which will happen first. i close on my house april 21st or get the wolf?
reality is, dont pay any real attention to promise dates or add 12 weeks to it-haha
JUST WAIT....
it is a handcrafted instrument and inlays are not easy to make in most cases. and if they were to start pushing basses out the door, you know the quality would go down. as for our friend rami
sounds like someone should have chucked his bass in the fireplace and made him a new one, but his is an extreme case imho, would i buy another? probably,but i would keep it simple

bigbadbill · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2005, 01:20:40 PM »

I was lucky with my Triple O, it took very lttle time to finish (admittedly it was nowhere near as custom as some of the basses built for Forum members); even so it was a very stressful (but ultimately immensely fulfilling)process, so I can imagine how people must feel when their basses take much longer. I've had 2 non-Alembic instruments built before, the longest taking 10 months, and it was quite a wait but I knew the luthier well and was happy to wait as long as necessary. If I ever have the good fortune to be able to order another Alembic again, I guess I'll wait as long as I have to (although I'm sure it'll be stressful regardless!). To go back to the initial post, I think 2 years is too long, given what was quoted at the outset. If they'd said 1 year and you were now into your second, well I guess percentage wise that's forgiveable, but four months? I think I'd be asking very serious questions.

With regards to Rami's situation, I'm REALLY shocked. That just doesn't sound like what I've come to expect. I really feel bad for you, and I hope the situation eventually sorts itself out.

With regards to Roger's comments re his Statuses (sorry to digress from the main issue of the thread), I am quite intrigued because,unless I manage to get together enough to get another Triple O which isn't likely, I was looking at the Stealth (or the Kingbass)as a potential buy in the future. The thing stopping me at the moment is that I've had two of the original graphite-necked Energys and also a Series 2000 all-graphite and I wasn't really bowled over by the sounds I got; I found them very powerful (particularly the 2000), but not very musical; also I found them somewhat clacky. My Triple O sounds vastly better than any of my Statuses did. But I am intrigued. Interesting that our other loves are Rickenbacker 4001s too.