Author Topic: Line-6 BassPod (Read 360 times)

811952 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2006, 08:11:45 AM »

The issue for me isn't that they sound like crap, it's that they sound the exactly the same every time, especially the cymbals. There is a local drummer who uses them. He is an excellent technician and timekeeper, and loves them for their consistency, but I can't stand to listen to him play them. It is amazing the infinite subtle differences a drummer can wring out of a set of skins, that aren't available electronically, imho. I'm sure there are situations where electronic drums would be fine, but as a bass player I would rather interact with the real thing, tone- and dynamics-wise.

John

paulman · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2006, 01:12:49 PM »

John, I totally agree with the dynamic feel of acoustic drums. There is nothing like it, but you or I will be much more sensitive to this as musicians, and most norms won't hear the difference as they have another shot and beer (joke).

However I have a set of V-Drums that sound great, I use them for recording sometimes.

The main funciton of the V-Drums for me is so I can have the band over, and do headphone rehearsal. The loudest thing in the room are the vocals.

Becuase of this, and the COPS FINALLY stopped visiting to say hi, and snarl!

I would not use them live however, 'cept maybe for some spacy jam when unconventional sounds are needed.

To address the equipment lugging issue, I bought two Bose PS-1's with bass cabs for the band, and we have not used anything else since (except the bass player, 4x18 B-52 folded horn subs...but he gets to move all those himself hahaha). They solved feedback problems, muffly vocals, and project the Further so transparently it's well, amazing (I no longer use a guitar amp). R*ck Tur**er (I hope that is enough) compared them to an effeciently packaged wall of sound. I mean,my kid unloaded the PA and set it all up! That's how easy they are to use.

hb3 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2006, 02:28:23 PM »

How come you wouldn't use the V Drums live? Can't you load up any sounds you want, including traditional drum sounds?

811952 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2006, 05:03:54 PM »

It is amazing how well the Bose system works. One band I played in set them up almost directly behind the vocalists and they wouldn't even begin to feedback. The guitarist in the band with the electronic drums guy plays through one and his tone is excellent.

The sounds the V Drums make aren't the issue for me, it's instead the dynamics and subtle changes in tone and attack that they lack (to my ears). Maybe if you wanted everything to sound like a Steely Dan CD they might be perfect (if you used real cymbals and hi-hat). I simply find them not organic enough for my taste. Oh, the inhumanity!

If you're using them and like them, then more power to you! They would simplify everything about the gig, and I agree with Roger that the audience probably wouldn't even notice and/or care (much like they don't really care about anything but the singer and lead guitar)...

John

lbpesq · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2006, 07:29:20 PM »

Roger;

Are you playing the Further directly into the BOSE array, or are you going through some kind of modeler or preamp first?

Bill, tgo

88persuader · « **Reply #20 on:** October 05, 2006, 07:53:47 PM »

I actually own a set of V-drums. I play 4 instruments and have giged with all of them. Many player know me as a keyboard player, some a drummer, some guitarist and some bass player. And I'm VERY spoiled with my equipment selection. I own a set of Pearl Session series acoustic drums and a set of roland V-drums - TD10 model. (Yesterday's BIGGEST V-Drum kit ... almost the same as todays TD-20's.) I fully believe V-drums (the higher level mesh pad ones) are great for live play and recording. I wouldn't use them for a JAZZ gig or a gig where the neuances (did i spell that right?) are important BUTTTTTTTT on a rock gig or any T-40 or GB gig I'd use them in a heart beat! My experience unfortunately is MOST drummers i've played with, even the ones with great chops, have little concept how to properly tune their drums so they're rich and sing. Most tune them too low and they sound like paper or have bad ringing. V-Drums are the answer to these poor souls! :-)

88persuader · « **Reply #21 on:** October 06, 2006, 12:11:18 AM »

John ... What model V-drums is your drummer using? Like most touch sensitive SYNTHS you need to have the V-drums set up correctly to relay a true sense of dynamics. I spent weeks tweaking all the sounds on my TD-10. I created 4 kits that I'd put up to any well tuned acoustic drum kit. One is a rock kit with deep slightly muffled toms, one is a power ballad kit, same as the rock kit but with big reverb added, one is a fusion kit with a piccilo snare, 20 kick and smaller toms and cymbals and one is an all around LIVE sounding kit. It's really in the programing. My drummer uses my V-drums at rehearsal and LOVES them. HIS only two issues are a new set will cost him in excess of 4 grand and 2nd he doesn't like the look ... he loves big drums and shinny cymbals. But sound and DYNAMIC wise they're hard to beat. And again it depends on the kit. If your drummer is playing a TD-6 based kit or lower it's going to sound like a drum machine but if he's playing a TD-10, TD-12 or TD-20 they have the potential to deliver more feel then a lot of drummers have the potential of delivering themselves.

811952 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 06, 2006, 08:01:15 AM »

Raymond,

It's not my drummer that uses them. It's a guy in another band. I'm not sure which model they are, other than they were the most $$$ about 3 years ago. TD-10 sounds familiar though. The individual drum sounds are very believeable, but it's the consistency that I can't stand. As well, he has them setup exactly how he likes them, which to me is too, er, consistent. I think the dynamics must be happening inside his head.

If it were a *loud* band that normally runs a lot of limiting on the drum subgroup, then I don't reckon you'd notice the difference out front. I haven't played in that type of situation for quite some time though, so I don't know if I would still hate electronic drums or not in that context. I'm fortunate to play behind a PA with lots of unused muscle for the the venues we play, and am blessed to play with a drummer who is really into changing it up all night long on an excellent sounding set of ancient well-mic'd Ludwigs.

If you enjoy playing with the V-drums, then most definitely follow your muse. It is entirely within reason to assume that the subtle nuances I'm hearing are all between my ears as well. I am an idiosyncratic contankerous old bastich, somewhat set in my delusional ways and probably a pain in the arse to play music with, so take my opinions as possibly being on the extreme end of whichever end they happen to fall on this day.

I am, of course, quite interested to read about your experiences in making the transition to a backline-less operation.

John

88persuader · « **Reply #23 on:** October 08, 2006, 09:22:28 PM »

Well John ... it's sure a matter of taste. ALL musical decisions are. I know bass players who think the only bass worth playing is an OLD AMERICAN FENDER bass. The older the better. And of course we on this forum might disagree with that. In regard to V-drums ... as I said before it really is a matter of programing. TD-10's have positional sensing ... they sound different if you're buzz rolling in the center of the head and towards the side, just like acoustic drums. BUT they have 100's of sounds that don;t sound like LIVE ACOUSTIC drums. They sould like processed, in the studio drums. Limited, processed, mic'ed, reverb, you name it. They don't sound acoustic on stage ... they sound processed. BUT if you're trying to get a great front end mix they CAN .... CAN sound like a perfectly tuned, mic'ed, and processed drum kit. And their PERFECTION takes away from the natural imperfection of a REAL kit.

You'd be surprised how many big acts use V-drums live now. They have them built into acoustic drum shells and use either smart trigger cymbals that look acoustic or actual acoustic cymbals. The Trans Siberian Och. has always used just V-drums and they sound amazing live. PERFECT. Which again makes them sound a little unreal.

Personally I went through great pains to make one kit that sounded LIVE. There's a little ring in the drums, not much in the way of processing, NOT perfect. And also keep in mind to pull off a great sounding live mix with V-drums you need a great sound system with highs, mids and subs and someone with EARS behind the board. Belicve it or not it's easier to mix them if you have a good system. I'm in the process of doing drum tracks in a major studio for a new original song writer. I auditioned with my Pearl acoustic kit but suggested my V-drums. He was a little afraid of them but after I played them for him he was sold. And in the studio it probably saved him 6 hours of studio time NOT needing to tweak, tape, muffle, and tune every drum. It was plug and play. Even the engineer who said you've got to be sh-ting me when she saw them was a believer when she heard the results.

ANYWAY ... spent too much time on the topic. As you can tell I have a great opinion of V-drums. What I tell other drummers is think of them as a DIFFERENT drum kit. They ARE real ... but they're different. Just like an acoustic guitar is different then an electric guitar. Just like an acoustic bass is different from our Alembics. I believe it's the future of drums just like the electric guitar became far more popular then the acoustic. BUTTTTTTTTTTTT there will ALWAYS be room for the beauty of the acoustic instrument. The ROOT ...

811952 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2006, 07:47:28 AM »

Raymond,

Start a V-drums thread and I'll bash the Bass Pod! (not really) FWIW, Will (the drummer I play with) used to do the ddrum-triggers-Roland thing, but ultimately decided he liked acoustic better. He also typically brings 3 snares to a gig. We musicians are finicky and no two of us are going to agree on everything. C'est la vie...

Have you had a chance to gig without amps and such yet? Impressions? How does your chiropractor feel about losing a significant chunk of his business?

I'm curious how you end up mixing things in your in-ears, and how many separate mixes you have going. In my band we have the ability to have 4 discreet monitor mixes I think, and I'll probably end up sharing with the drummer. His mix is mostly bass with some guitar, vocal and kick.

The major advantage I see to your fully-through-the-board setup is that recordings from the board will accurately reflect the mix in the room (EQ anomalies aside). No reason your band's next CD couldn't be live.

John

88persuader · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2006, 08:57:41 PM »

John I'm excited about in ear monitors. Haven't made the switch yet but tonight the band is having a business meeting to make plans and I believe we'll have them before our next gig in two weeks. We've all already said we want to do it so it's just making a solid game plan now. I'll definitely let you know how they work out. BTW we need at least 4 seperate sends so all 4 on stage can have a personal mix we're happy with. If I want my bass a little over everything else I should be able to have it without being a jerk to the others or screwing up the house mix. I'm very excited about the possibilities ... I hope it turns out good! I'll let ya know!!

88persuader · « **Reply #26 on:** October 09, 2006, 10:07:23 PM »

Hey ... to come full circle back to the reason for this thread, the basspod. I went on line tonight using line 6's free softwear and gained access to their sound vault for the basspodxt. They supply free software you can use to do all the pod manipulations, create amp and sound combos and make your own collection. Then you can download your collection to this sound vault and upload patches others have created. Looks like at this time there's over 1700 free patches available. I've uploaded around 40 so far ... awesome patches other users have made. When i call them up on my laptop they control the pod and if I want them IN the pod it's really easy to transfer them into the internal memory. Regardless how well this turns out to be using it ampless it's an awesome TOY for bass players. I highly recommend them. You should hear what my Stanley Clark Standard sounds like through it! :-)