Bass players, some need to think outside the box

[john_judge]

I went to hear 6 bands while on vacation over a 2 week period and I must say I was totally frustrated by the Bass player of each group, I heard big low end, clean highs, nice tones, great equipment, melodic playing, Piccolo's, 4, 5 and 6's with fat back bone..from everything to P basses to Alembics and even a Stienberg... what was bad?
I heard 4/4 till the cows came home, no good chops, I mean silence can be a golden thing when used correctly like that one note left out, I heard so much bass flange and echo and slap back delays and reverb, you would of thought Jimi Hendrix was performing on Bass live using the Electric Ladyland Board .
 
I mean,  dont get me wrong here, I am not saying effects are not good, they are when used correctly but when used wrong they just cover up a lot of bad playing.  Mainly it was just one overkill drive of sound with no Dynamics in tonality or playing ability.
So this is not for everyone, but do yourself a favor, record yourself and listen to what you play, does everything sound the same? do you solo in the same key? do you get past Diatonic or Pentatonic scales or Dorian or lydian mode? I really think that some of us (Bass players) could shine a little more if they just  do more critiquing of themselves and not settle,.
 
To me the Bass is my Art in which I show the world a reflection of myself, so I am hard on myself and struggle for constant change for tone for sound  and when I have that then I listen to what I am exactly playing and presenting to the audience whether it is recorded or live, take a chance and step outside the box and listen to yourself you will like and hate what you hear but in the end you will correct what you don't like..
 
In closing I like to ad that if you never played an Upright or whether you care to, I suggest you do so, It is a great way to develop your playing dynamics, no pick ups, no volume knobs or tone, you have to do all that with your hands and technique.  
Take the time to learn how good you really are.
 
peace everyone..just a word of thought that stayed in my mind from my vacation

[sonicus]

I can agree with you John in your last paragraph regarding the development of ones hands and technique and Upright playing.
One can be lucky sometimes as a Bass player when you are allowed to show your individuality at all in some settings and not be  berated or even fired for playing creatively within the harmonic structure or  even just playing  more then is written.I always feel lucky when I am allowed to express my self.

[john_judge]

Yes Wolf, there is nothing better then when you can fully express yourself in your playing and when it is done tastefully and does not interfere with the performance of the group, unless of course you are flying completely solo.

[pauldo]

John - great advice, especially recording and listening back to what was laid down.  
 
In a similar vein (or is it vane?)-
Years ago, I had a guitarist tell me that I should practice with a metronome and record myself. Initially it was taken as an insult... but man when I did I understood why he wanted me to - I was terrible. Some may question if I ever got better, but I do know that I learned alot and on occasion still practice with a metronome or my TR707 just to keep my internal clock in-sync.

[john_judge]

Yeah your right on the money Paul, metronome is a great way to practice chops going off the time signature and even playing retards slowin it down and see if you can pick up back on one of the measure.
I used one of the Korg ear metronomes for years along with the tradional box and it's a great feeling when you can play your Bass and keep meter better than most drummers! Lol!

[hb3]

I've been noticing that everyone's got these big, complicated pedal boards...guitarists and bassists...pedals are definitely way in right now....

[svlilioukalani]

I just got done reading The Music Lesson by Victor Wooten. One very heavy book. This thread make me think of the chapter on silence. What you don't play is more important than what you do. Nobody seems to talk about space and phrasing. So many have lost the ambition to groove in favor of flashy look at me gimmicks. The last few show's I've done, I have tried to play no fills. A major challenge for me; but I seem to lock onto the pocket  much more when I loose the ego. It's all about the music. My goal for this months shows again to loose the fills and grove. More important to sit in the pocket. The mental energy expended on thinking of cool fills prevents the mind from relaxing and locking onto the music. Save the energy for solos. They will be so much more powerful.

[john_judge]

Very well put Gary and I am sure Victor and Stanley know exactly what I'm saying here LOL!.A lot of the stuff I am talking about can be found if you listen well to Romantic Warrior album, silence then explosive energy of leads, solo's and unison playing done gracefully, but with pure searing and soaring scales of power and precision , individually or all at the same time. Someone picks the groove and then they all compliment it..! Purest form of expressive playing

[benson_murrensun]

Yes, I second Gary's thoughts - it's all about the tune.
One thing that reinforced that for me at the beginning, and continues to do so, is the knowledge that I will never be a chops monster - I got started too late in life, don't have the time to woodshed - so I have to prioritize. My goals are to make the band sound better and to honor the tune. I don't do anything fancy, and lots of people want me to play with them... so it must be OK!

[chrisalembic]

Bass players, some need to think outside the box
 
For me a good way to think outside of the box, is to listen to all kinds of music and transcribe. And most of the time transcribing other instruments. As bass players we tend to think and play a certain way due to the nature of the instrument and its role. Of course thinking bass is not a bad thing per se. But often times bass players seem to be limited in the melodic department, especially when they solo. But not only soloing. Also basslines dont have to be dull but can be very melodic. Actually some of my favorite basslines come from Joe Zawinul (keys).. maybe its cause he didnt think like the typical bass player but had a sense for melody. Another great bass player: JS Bach ;-).  
 
As for certain exercises: they sure are great for exmple for learning the fretboard, developing technique, time, touch etc.. Its just that I sometimes feel more importance is put on those than on the actual music. Just listen. Very carefully and deeply. Take out all the information. Its all in the music.

[glocke]

chops monster'
 It's not really all about being a chops monster.  Having the ability to play what the song requires is much more important.   Remember, the role of the bass is to keep the beat going and to define the harmony.  
 
I always like to use the example of Duck Dunn....Certainly not a lead type bass player, but has done way more sessions with many more people than any of the popular chops players out there.
 
Johns comment on the metronome is right on point.  I try to incorporate it into my practice often.  If I go a couple of weeks without using it it is very noticable to me.

[john_judge]

Just to clear the air regarding Chop's to all...Chops doesn't mean you play them all the time and go crazy and overkill yourself or the band you may play with.  
You are building an arsenal of technique and methods to use maybe in a piece of a song or during a solo, but the more Chops you know the more you understand, the more you understand the more you hear and can easily pick out the lines of Bass from a musical passage and incorporate and in the case of Duck Dunn for example,  just because he plays a laid down type groove no one should underestimate his playing ability, when you play around horn groups you can't help but to develop Chop's so the Key element here is learn all you can and knowing where and when to apply that knowledge and if the band tells you to go for it and spotlight then use what you are comfortable with in your arsenal, just make it good, because at that special moment you only get one chance .
 when I think of lead Bass players the first two that come to mind is John Entwhistle and Stanley Clarke, but they were bred to become that by there fellow players and the musical choice's that were made by them the individual and the band as a whole. John himself told me once that most guitar players he jammed with in off Who seasons, hated to play with him and  one called him a spineless backbone of low note Passage's because he couldn't follow him going off the groove and back on again, I mean listen to the song The Real Me thats a bands nightmare of a Bass player overplaying and going wild but in the Who form and to us who listen, it's a Bass players masterpiece of pure shine and one of John's best in part because of Townsend holding down the chord structure in a Bass players mind while John played lead, they just switched roles !
 
Sometime John's idea of 4/4 was to play 6 come back and play 2 then 2 more and 3 then 2 beat trill, 1 hammer  and back on 1
to sum it up CHOP'S people.

[sonicus]

Jaco Pastorius used to say;_____WRITE IT DOWN ! Have you listened to Jeff Berlin ?; he is a big advocate of standard staff notation as well.Yes Sir _____ get out the Staff Notation  and  Metronome.I have sometimes liked to play written trumpet parts on Bass, it is in the wrong octave and I need to transpose down a major third but an interesting approach to learn the musical motif or riff.

[serialnumber12]

john you are absolutly right, after listening to the CD of the chicago gathering i knoticed i need work on a few things myself........a few years ago i put my hand thru a wall and broke a couple fingers & had a gig that night so while getting my cast put on i told the doctor to leave my index exposed but all my other fingers were inside the cast ......long story short playing with one finger all night the whole band knoticed me totally in the pocket (no fancy stuff)& i never sounded soo good with just one finger!  
 
(Message edited by serialnumber12 on July 23, 2009)

[sonicus]

OUT OF THE BOX_________  Musical literacy   _ There is so much beautiful information there to learn from.