Author Topic: ASCAP/BMI___ON A RAMPAGE ! (Read 403 times)

sonicus · « **on:** March 17, 2012, 10:34:27 AM »

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/ascap-targets-farmers-markets-and-house-venues/Content?oid=3151285

They are doing it again !____________
I recently had a gig canceled because a local Venue Owner was worried about being fined.
I remember in the early 1990's they swept around from venue to venue listening in for Cover Tunes .

stout71 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2012, 10:45:47 AM »

This sucks in certain circumstances, but remember, BMI and ASCAP are out there to protect musicians with copyrighted material. Anytime a song gets played on the radio, the artists should get a royalty. When venues register with these guys, they're basically buying a blanket license to cover any circumstances where a band or musician plays a cover tune. The alternative is BMI or ASCAP showing up at a gig and fining the MUSICIAN for playing a cover tune, which is why the venue takes on the liability. If the venue owner is worried about being fined, they should do the right thing and register. That's my two cents anyway.

xlrogue6 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2012, 10:52:35 AM »

I'm all for paying artists royalties, but I suspect the majority of the revenue generated by these sting operations supports the bureaucracy that collects them.

stout71 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2012, 11:23:19 AM »

I suspect that you're right.

hieronymous · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2012, 12:03:14 PM »

Agreed - I don't think this is with the best interests of musicians in mind - I think it's the old fashioned music industry trying to protect their money!

bigredbass · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2012, 04:33:44 PM »

This is the inevitable back end of the business rising, since the front end (record sales/royalties) have been demolished with pirate downloads.

I've heard all the lame arguments for these ripoffs, and nothing yet has convinced me it's any different from walking into (the recently gone) Tower Records, filling a shopping bag, and walking right out without paying a cent.

The really unfortunate problem I see here in Nashville is the songwriters: They may have penned a platinum hit for an artist. That artist can play road dates and do fine, but the songwriter royalties from that are tiny, and with no accountable record sales aside from I*Tunes and the like, what's the future for these writers? Why do you think it seems like every artist is out on the road every year like clockwork?

Until some workable model can be enforceable in this Brave New Digital World where the owners and creators can be rightfully paid what's theirs, it's going to be a difficult time.

Oh, and that 'old fashioned music industry'? Come here and let me take you to Music Row, and we'll go see where it used to be, along with the Civil War relics. Well, I forgot, we can go to the Opry on the weekend . . . . It's just going to be a while 'till the 'new fashioned music industry' is fully formed.

J o e y

lbpesq · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2012, 04:43:40 PM »

The bummer is that the gig Wolf & I were playing wasn't even a paying gig! We were doing it for fun - tips only. The last time out I think I made all of $4.50. Including schlepping the equipment, set up and breakdown, it worked out to about $0.90 an hour! And now we can't even do that. Gee, can I play in my basement studio or will that buy me a lawsuit?

Bill, tgo

pauldo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2012, 05:12:32 PM »

You CAN play in your basement but be cautious . . .

Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death.

:-o

Paul TSO

hieronymous · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2012, 10:56:21 PM »

Joey, how about if we change the old fashioned music industry to the bean counters and suits who make their money of the creativity of others?

When I said the old fashioned music industry I wasn't inferring anything about the new fashioned music industry at all, but if I were to talk about it, I would hope that it supports creativity and the best interests of musicians, songwriters, and everyone else that is a part of what makes music great.

oddmetersam · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2012, 04:09:20 AM »

Way back (actually, way, WAY back) when, Savant Guard played Jupiter in Berkeley on a regular basis and we always ended our set with Led Boots from the Jeff Beck Wired album. The outro is in 7 and we always tried to take it into outer space!

One evening I noticed a solitary figure nursing a beer off to the side, checking us out. We played one of our better renditions of the tune and when I was packing up while the other two guys went to the bathroom this same guy comes up and was very complimentary about our performance. Then he introduced himself: Narada Michael Walden -- the drummer on that album and one of my fusion heroes whom I'd also seen with the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I almost passed out.

Super cool and humble dude who seemed pleased we'd played the tune. I mentioned that whenever someone asked about the song (one of only 3 cover tunes in our entire catalog), we always told them about the original and suggested they check out the album.

He split before my weak-bladder bandmates returned. We sent him a Christmas-themed thanks for listening card. Savant Guard may be long gone, but I still receive an annual Christmas card from his Tarpan Studios.

BTW, I've played that San Leandro Farmers Market in Wolf's link 3 times with Sizemo. Some buds said the last time they could hear my Alembic from a few blocks away. And I really don't play that loud, I swear...

-Sam

lidon2001 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2012, 10:22:43 AM »

A quick refresher for those who need it:

Copyright Math

David Houck · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2012, 12:48:24 PM »

Great story Sam! Very cool!

lidon2001 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2012, 10:18:38 PM »

ASCAP fee for a shopping center / mall less than 300,000 sq. ft. one day performance is $41.50. Not sure what this venue/market would be classified as, but let's say this is it.

Do the people who host the event profit from it or are they non-profit? If they do profit, is $41.50, or $3362 maximum (any size shopping venue)for a year, too much in addition to performer costs (or lack there of in Bill's gig) to provide an entertaining atmosphere for their patrons? I didn't look to see what BMI rates are. You be the judge, but I wouldn't call asking venues to pay $41.50 for each day of an event with live music including covers if they are making money from said event as rampaging. Even in court, $3362 only gets you so much rampaging (small claims?); I don't think all caps are necessary.

Check out www.ascap.com for more info.

I don't think it's too much to ask. Having done licensing for a karaoke company that basically ignored Harry Fox and others for a number of years despite my recommendation not to, I say yes, pay the songwriters.

That being said, there was the recent report of the band that asked their fans to avoid iTunes and other traditional sellers, and pirate their music, get it from their website, or buy a t-shirt or disc at a show since their record company is allegedly cheating them.

I support such actions. But if you want the truth as usual, you have to follow the money.

sonicus · « **Reply #13 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:00:19 AM »

I believe in 100% Anti-Piracy. Having contributed to the music industry as a musician ,writer and engineer I am my self being cheated out of royalties from various sources. I have personally confronted parties who illegally sell NOT considered as FAIR USE copied music CD's and DVD's at Flea Markets and have notified the persons who are in charge of such practices many times.

I believe that if a public establishment is required to pay a fee for performances that rather then an ambush or sting method in the collection process that a friendly notification method should be used. If there is no stinging, biting ,ambushing or other such tactical methodology then largeOUCH caps will not be necessary.

(Message edited by sonicus on March 19, 2012)

serialnumber12 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 19, 2012, 05:41:59 AM »

this aint nothin but a 'Mafia shakedown'!.........gangsters taking their cut!