Author Topic: The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread  (Read 4417 times)

elwoodblue

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2015, 04:08:06 PM »
It looks like the rear brace  on #2 is way closer to the heel than the usual place. ?

cozmik_cowboy

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2015, 07:21:21 PM »
Neck woods? One is maple and the other is mahogany?
 
In seriousness, I think you're close; IIRC, at least some J-45s had a mahogany top in those days - which I believe made them all-hog.  The SJ would be rosewood & spruce.
 
Peter (who would be much more certain if they were Martins)
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

ed_zeppelin

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2015, 10:37:16 PM »
The soundhole on A is bigger and slightly closer to the neck. The difference in picture angles makes it hard to tell for sure, but is the bottom bout larger on B?
 
In my opinion, based on my extensive experience I'd have to say that B was made after lunch.

ed_zeppelin

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2015, 10:51:32 PM »
Interesting National Music Museum display of a 1944 SJ
 
http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/PluckedStrings/Guitars/Gibson/10867/SouthernerJumboGuitar.html
 
The Southerner Jumbo, or SJ, was Gibson?s replacement for the Jumbo 55 model in 1944. A very limited number of pre-War instruments with Factory Order Number 910 had rosewood backs and ribs, which on later SJs were made of mahogany. The SJ also had fancier trim than the preceding J-55, with multi-ply, celluloid binding trim, rosette inlay, and a celluloid heel cap. NMM 10867 also features a golden banner decal on the peghead, ONLY A GIBSON IS GOOD ENOUGH. This slogan was used on decals between 1944 and 1946, when it was abandoned because of a rather aggressive Epiphone ad campaign that touted its instruments for When Good Enough Isn?t Good Enough.

bigredbass

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2015, 11:30:19 PM »
I worked there for 18 months, during which time Henry the J ran that OAGIGE slogan as a classified ad in the Nashville paper seven days a week.  Hmmm . . . . . I wanted to change it to 'Only Good is Gibson Enough', but like I said, having worked there for 18 months . . . . I wouldn't have taken an oath for that, either.
 
IF I were to hazard a guess, and taking it that these really are very close blueprint-wise, there's always that 'If' factor with wood where 10 consecutive serial numbers will vary just because of the milled wood pieces.  My real guess would be (looking at the lacquer finish on the restored one) is the re-fin is new, a different chemistry than they used back then, and probably thicker.
 
But then, what the hell do I know?
 
Joey

edwardofhuncote

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2015, 06:32:54 AM »
Good points all! Coz nailed it a few posts ago.  
 
Actually the pictures didn't sufficiently show the major difference between them, and the sunburst finish obscured what clue there was to see. It's the top wood... the SJ is a spruce soundboard, while the J-45 has a mahogany top. I'd never played them A/B before this weekend, but wow, that mahogany responds completely different.  
 
My cousin is primarily a fingerstyle player... he uses a thumbpick and three bare fingers to do what he does, which is a mix of ragtime, blues, and miscellaneous. Most of the time he's playing a 1942 L-00, but he's acquired a taste for these J bodies of late. The dry woody tone of that mahogany J-45 I think suits his style much better. As a flatpick player, the sparkly clear highs of the SJ suited me better. Heck - I like 'em all!
 
On the Banner headstocks: I used to collect Gibson Kalamazoo branded guitars... one time as a spoof I made up some t-shirts with a picture of the Kalamazoo headstock stencil and added a photo-shopped banner that read When A Gibson Is Too Good. (lucky for me, ol' Henry the J didn't hear about it)
 
I might have mentioned before Joey, I tried my best to get hired on there at Elm Hill Pike one time, by most accounts, it's probably best for me that it never worked out. =)
 
(Message edited by edwardofhuncote on September 15, 2015)

ed_zeppelin

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2015, 06:58:49 PM »
I played washtub bass with a street band in Seattle called Jammin' Salmon in the early 80's, despite the fact that I'd never touched a washtub bass in my life. I didn't want to do it. I'll tell you that right now.  
 
I had to put one together quickly because I was flat broke and a group of the most astonishing performers ive ever met virtually forced me to.  
 
They did stuff like Louis Jordan's Ain't Nobody Here But Us Chickens and Cab Calloway's Minnie the Moocher in TIGHT four-part harmony. The original arrangements, off the records.
 
They said they needed a washtub bass(ist) and I fit the bill. I swear, I wouldn't have done it otherwise. But it's scary how close I came to missing one of the most greatest musical experiences of my life.
 
Jammin' Salmon entertained the tourists at the Pike Street Market, and places like Pioneer Square and the Space Needle.(By the way, if you're ever in a situation where you're forced to busk for a living, don't suck.)
 
Luckily, I knew someone who could make a washtub from stuff at a hardware store (instructions upon request) and about two hours later we were bangin' out insanely cool music in front of a huge throng of people. It happened that quick.
 
It was SO cool. Bass at its most primitive, just you and that string. Watcha gonna do, monkey-boy?  
 
The best part was that we made a LOT of money because this music made people dance. They couldn't help it. It gave me a complete education in the FUNCTION of bass. Just yankin' and spankin'. It doesn't get any more fundamental than that.
 
It's stupid simple to play, too, because nobody notices mistakes, at all. Ever. You watch. Everybody smiles at you and they dance, and give you money.  
 
The secret to a washtub bass is to prop the front rim of the washtub on something STURDY (

cozmik_cowboy

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2015, 07:10:12 PM »
I'm glad your cousin has found his match - and if the L-00 is lonely, he can feel free to send it my way!
 
Peter
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

edwardofhuncote

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2015, 04:04:53 AM »
Coz, I'll post some more of my cousin's guitars sometime. He only has two Martins, the rest are Gibsons or National Resophonics. That old L-00 is pretty special... it's had some work done, but good quality work; neck set, refret, bridge reglue, and I personally fixed a pickguard crack that was threatening to break out to the soundhole, and that thin little piece of binding around it.  
 
Thanks for that Ed_Zep! Man I'm sure missing hearing Rice... He is in poor health these days, and hasn't made any public appearances for quite a while. He surely picked up where Clarence White left off with that old guitar.  
 
Many years ago, (say, probably 30) following a concert in a nearby High School, Tony saw 3 of us ogling that old D-28 in it's anvil case, and in his already gruff tone says Hell, y'all pick one on that old thing, you can't tear it up no worse than I have. Yeah, we did. There are fuzzy pictures somewhere.

cozmik_cowboy

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2015, 04:43:45 AM »
In '04, my youngest spent the summer working on a farm in Bayfield, WI.  We went to visit him, and, it being Bayfield, I asked who was at Bigtop Chautauqua (home of NPR's Tent Show Radio); quoth he I looked & didn't see anybody.  Fortunatley for him, Dad was wise enough to look for himself, hip understand the implications of a listing for Peter Rowan & Tony Rice, and nice enough to spring for second row center.  Be advised, there was some pickin' going on that night!!  (Billy Bright on mandolin - I could read his mind: This is Peter Rowan; he's played with David Grisman and BILL FREAKIN MONROE and he hired `me to play mando - my young ass is validated!!) & Brynn Davis (at that point Brynn Bright) - oh my yes - on bass.  Great night; I'm more than a tad jealous, Forest.
 
Peter (who couldn't have hung, anyway)
"Is not Hypnocracy no other than the aspiration to discover the meaning of Hypnocracy?  Have you heard the one about the yellow dog yet?"
St. Dilbert

"If I could explain it in prose, i wouldn't have had to write the song."
Robt. Hunter

edwardofhuncote

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2015, 11:08:33 AM »
Here?s a guitar with a story? I only know the last twenty-five years of it.
 
To start with, I found this guitar in a trash can on a Wednesday. I know it was Wednesday, because the guy who drove the town trash truck radioed me where it was... that particular address was on their Wednesday?s route. I was the town?s water meter reader, and I knew it like the back of my hand. The guys on the truck knew I worked on musical instruments, and brought me anything interesting, but this particular Wednesday, they were ?packed out? and going to the dump. It was getting ready to rain, so the driver called my radio number, (cell phones hadn?t been invented yet) and sent me over to rescue it. I didn?t think much about it at the time, didn?t even look very close. I remember it was filthy and mildewed, and smelled very much like a goat barn. Don?t ask how I know what that smells like.  
 
Skipping forward, the guitar stood in a dusty corner of my shop for another couple years. Then I met this girl who said she wanted to learn to play guitar. I liked her a little bit, and since she could sing like an angel, I kinda? wanted her to like me back, so in a fit of hormones or something, I totally went off the rails and set about putting the old guitar in playing condition.  
 
It was a mess, both inside and out? tuners were shot, many cracks, loose braces, plus the center seam of the back was separating. And it was still dirty, and still smelled a little like a goat barn. I knew that wasn?t gonna? score me any points, with the cold-hearted singer with the beautiful voice, so I started by a good cleaning. What? You didn?t seriously think ^that^ part was gonna? have a happy ending? (it kinda? did, but that?s later... MUCH later) After cleaning the years? worth of scuzz off, this charming feature appeared? someone, sometime had scratched the name ?Peggy? into the top, and carved a heart shape around it. I thought - awww? ain?t that sweet! Dude probably had about as much luck with Peggy as I did with the singer, but whatever. Hint guys ? never, ever scratch your love interest's name into a guitar? it doesn?t work, at least not the way you think it will.  
 
Anyway, that?s about when I started to realize just what a gem the trash truck guys had saved. This little guitar I had assumed was a run-of-the-mill, catalog guitar was actually a hand-made instrument, that didn?t bear much resemblance to any known maker. The back and sides were walnut, the back was even quarter-sawn and bookmatched. It had a spruce top, a mahogany neck, and a rosewood fingerboard, even rosewood binding, and an inlaid endpiece to hide the joint. It had the strangest bracing pattern I'd ever seen, something between a A-frame and an M... it was very rigid to say the least, but in all the right places. It had an odd shaped bridge clearly made to resemble a Stauffer style one but without points, and a straight uncompensated saddle. It even had homemade wooden bridge pins. Based on how sturdy it was built and how wide the string spacing was, I?m pretty sure it was meant to be played lap style, like a Hawaiian slide guitar. This much is certain - it was definitely not the first or only attempt at instrument building, whoever had made this had obviously advanced skills. Upon disassembly, I found the name I presume to be the maker, and a date scrawled inside on the treble rib, deep inside where it would never be seen? M. Jade ~ 1927. Don?t bother googling, nobody knows.  
 
So I fixed it, and gave it to the girl. She quickly gave up playing, and stopped talking to me after a lengthy discussion on how diverse our priorities in life were. I don?t think she ever appreciated what a cool little guitar it was, or how much love it took to put it back together. Whatever? I honestly missed the guitar more than her, but foolish pride won out, and I didn't ask for it back.
 
Years passed, like maybe 12 or 13? the singer and I got on speaking terms again, and I got the ?Peggy? guitar back. After a little tweaking, she was back in good order, this time with some new faux tortoise pins, and a brand new set of Stew-Mac?s ?Golden-Age? vintage replacement 3-on-a-plate tuners, in relic?d nickel finish. I even replaced the tattered wooden pickguard with a faux tortoise one to match the pins. Peggy was ready for another home, so I gave her to the young man who plays fiddle in my band when he went off to college. Peggy saw him through a degree in Engineering from Virginia Polytechnic Institute. (better known as Virginia Tech in the world of collegiate sports) Recently he came into a very nice old Martin 0-21, made in 1921, which he was able to afford due in part to being gainfully employed by virtue of that Engineering degree - and sent Peggy back home for some bridge work. I?m almost done with her? glued the new bridge on last night actually. Might see if he minds me keeping her for a while? I?ve enjoyed looking back at some of my early work, and thinking about what Mr. M. Jade would think if he knew his guitar was still around.

edwardofhuncote

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2015, 11:16:35 AM »


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


edwardofhuncote

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2015, 11:32:36 AM »
Couple shots of the bridge reglue. I had also shimmed the bridgplate inside, to relocate the bridge pin holes on the new bridge. Also note, I tightened the string spacing about a 1/4"  

 

 

    This view shows how the headstock is not square to the body. The neck has the smallest degree of twist. I planed it out of the fingerboard before re-fretting years ago.  


David Houck

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2015, 02:11:57 PM »
Spelling correction: Bryn Davies, here with Peter Rowan, Tony Rice, and Sharon Gilchrist in a beautiful version of Midnight Moonlight.

edwardofhuncote

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The Totally Miscellaneous non-Alembic Guitar and Bass Thread
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2015, 08:29:11 AM »
Good one Dave! Coincidentally, the guys I'm playing with this very evening almost always finish the last set with a jam-out version of Midnight Moonlight, inspired by none other than Peter Rowan.