Author Topic: Too strong truss rods? (Read 1631 times)

juggernaught · « **on:** November 11, 2008, 09:06:33 AM »

Hello again. I'm having a bit of a problem with my '05 Brown Bass. The strings don't seem to be giving enough tension on the neck to counter the truss rods: both the truss rods are completely loose (just snug against neck), and there's no clearance on any string halfway down the neck when i hold down the 1st and 24th frets (none anywhere on the neck). The strings are new and are flatwounds, so the tension from the strings should be fine. This seems to be a bad thing, especially since the strings buzz as they age and there's nothing I can do about it but raise the bridge. What can be done about this? Will this correct itself over age?

pierreyves · « **Reply #1 on:** November 11, 2008, 09:29:51 AM »

not correct, eaven the position of the tailpiece...
I had the same problem with my new SC signature from 2004 ... loose truss rods from the beggining, it's inacceptable for the price BUT I can't do nothing from Europe .. too expensive to send the bass AND Mrs Mica don't pay shipping for adjust HER problem... Thank's for a bass at 6700$...
I had my solution: you put a book between strings and fingerboard, at the biginnig, near the body. You give more tension (a,d,g,c for example) and you put your bass in a dry place ... 2 or 3 weeks to wait and your problem would be resolve a little ... after you put some special oil (huile de lin cuite) on the fingerboard.
Good luck.

lbpesq · « **Reply #2 on:** November 11, 2008, 09:45:16 AM »

Devon:

If the truss rods are completely loose, then the problem isn't that the rods are too strong. As is often said around here, it takes a while for the wood to realize it's not a tree. You might call Alembic and talk to Mica about this. I suspect you may need a heat bend. Other than the hassle of sending it back to Santa Rosa, should you want Alembic to do it, it's not realy a big deal. I had it done on my Custom Further, Woody. When it was fist built it had no relief with the truss rods completely loosened. After the heat bend, no problems. I believe this is also something a good luthier can do.

Bill, tgo

juggernaught · « **Reply #3 on:** November 11, 2008, 10:08:45 AM »

I'll call Alembic then.

terryc · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2008, 08:22:32 AM »

Sorry to sound biased here but I cannot see how Alembic can let any instrument go with this problem and I honestly have never experienced this with even the most cheapest of guitars/basses.
I would imagine all supply stock has been properly seasoned before sent to the factory for use.
Maybe a liberal dose of lemon oil will open the grain and allow it to 'stretch', I wouldn't put it anywhere where it is too dry though, it could have the opposite effect.
I would definitley call Alembic for in depth info about this.

juggernaught · « **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2008, 08:33:50 AM »

too dry?

I live in new mexico!

I'm still waiting to hear back from Alembic...

ajdover · « **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2008, 10:00:00 AM »

Devon,

I went through the same thing with my Dragon's Wing. In my case I use DR Hi Beams, .40-.100 which is a fairly light string. As I bought the Wing used, I didn't have the opportunity to have Alembic set it up for me using the marque that I prefer. Essentially, DRs tend to have a lower tension, even their heavier gauges when compared to other makes. As there wasn't enough tension in the string to pull the neck forward for relief, my Wing buzzed all over the place. In this case, it needed a heat bend. In my area I could not find a luthier to do this for me, so I sent it back to Alembic (and yes, I had to pay for it). They did a heat bend, and all is well with the world.

Before you send it back, I'd suggest, in addition to the other advice you've received here thus far, that you try a different brand of string. If you're having the same problem, then it's not the string. Conversely, you could put a heavier gauge on for a week or so and tune it up perhaps a step or half step higher than you normally tune, and let it sit for a week or two. Similiar to Pierre-Yves suggestion, this might pull the neck into relief, not unlike a heat bend. Better to try this than spend the money to send it to Alembic if you can't find a luthier in your area.

Heat bends aren't as scary as they sound. A competent luthier should be able to do it without much of a problem.

Hope this helps,

Alan

juggernaught · « **Reply #7 on:** November 12, 2008, 10:16:33 AM »

Hi Alan. Yeh, I changed the strings. I believe they're .45 Diadarrio flatwounds, but it was a set I had sitting around, so I don't know. Not used though. I may do the oil/high gauge/tune up thing. My guitar tech told me that a heat bend is a catch all fix for this type of thing, so I'm a bit skeptical.

ajdover · « **Reply #8 on:** November 12, 2008, 11:30:47 AM »

Devon,

I've also noticed that I've never had a buzzing problem on my Rickenbackers using similar strings. They're neck through like my Alembics. Nor have I ever had this problem with a set neck or bolt-on. In fairness, I don't have this problem with my SC Sig Standard, my Essence, or my Europa. I didn't have it with my Spyder either, or the other Essence which I recently sold to a friend. My Europa and Essence have the same gauge on them; the SC has .45-.105 DR Hi Beams on it (can't find a lighter gauge in the DRs in short scale). The Europa is an '03; the Essence a '91, and the Sig Standard an '06.

Hope you can get it resolved. I know how much it sucks when your bass won't play the way you want it to.

Good luck,

Alan

juggernaught · « **Reply #9 on:** November 12, 2008, 12:08:41 PM »

I've never had this problem either. I've had 2 other Alembics, both neck through, and both of which I was able to get plenty of forward bow in them. It is a bit stressful having it not be up to my expectations, especially for an instrument like an Alembic.

LMiwa · « **Reply #10 on:** November 12, 2008, 03:06:12 PM »

I'm close to having this problem (VERY little neck relief right now), but I also tune a 1/2 step low. I can't fault the bass when it was designed and built for standard tuning! I usually use slightly heavier gauge strings compensate for the detuning, and as a side benefit, the extra tension keeps the relief in the neck.

pierreyves · « **Reply #11 on:** November 12, 2008, 03:53:25 PM »

Alembic, with my respect ... would have NO PROBLEM for the price... They have chance I love this instrument but I think IT WOULD BE PERFECT for more than 6000USD ... Bass from Poland are great bass, nice sound, PERFECT, no problem of neck or tailpiece, and the price is the half.
mayones bass

Alembic sleep on his reputation ? I play Alembic until 1980, I had 3 series I, 1 essence, actually 2 signature and I will buy one other and one Serie I... BUT.. please SAlembic do anything...

ajdover · « **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2008, 04:11:13 PM »

Pierre-Yves refers to perfection in his post. I submit there is no such thing. If things could be made perfect, there would be nothing to strive for, no? Perfection, I think, is something to be striven for, but never attained. That's what separates, IMHO the outstanding from the mediocre.

I think it all boils down to expectation. Pierre-Yves obviously expects his Alembics to be perfect and I can understand that. However, the people that make them are human, and humans are, by nature, imperfect. That they would produce something that is less than perfect should surprise no one.

This being said, I can understand why Pierre-Yves feels the way he does, especially being on the other side of the pond where sending something back to Alembic is a very pricey option indeed.

Alan

LMiwa · « **Reply #13 on:** November 12, 2008, 04:32:55 PM »

Wood by its very nature changes over time. I'm sure no bass leaves Alembic with relief problems! However, as conditions change from location to location, by season, over time, etc., the wood in the neck will change as well. Some necks may twist, some my bow forward (correctable to some extent with the truss rods), and some may bow back, causing neck relief problems.

I have a carbon fiber neck Modulus which is about as stable as possible. It doesn't even have a truss rod. I get the relief it was built with and I better like it or I'm in trouble!

NONE of my other basses are that stable. All of them require truss rod adjustments every so often. As I stated above, I tune down, so I probably have more issues than most.

I have had some very expensive basses develop a twist in the neck. Very frustrating and expensive to correct, but a fact of life with wood necks.

Alembic necks are multi-laminate constructions with dual truss rods. For a wood neck, that's about as good as it gets. But expecting all of their necks to always be perfect and never develop issues is simply NOT realistic.

The fact that it happened with a bass that is located overseas instead of nearby in California is really unlucky. However that is a risk of purchasing a bass whose manufacturer isn't located reasonably nearby.

If you have a good working relationship with the Alembic dealer in your area, they should be able to assist you with the arrangements for either returning your instrument to Alembic, or getting the necessary work done locally.

For those of us who have to purchase our Alembics used on eBay, this is a risk that we should expect to assume. Alembic already provides WAY more support than any other manufacturer I have known.

juggernaught · « **Reply #14 on:** November 12, 2008, 04:50:45 PM »

Amen Loch! Yup, ebay's a risk alright, and I think I wasn't dealt the best hand (though the bass, otherwise, is spectacular). The upside is that Alembic is being extremely accommodating for my issue, so I may send it to them.