since i'm not totally immersed in alembic/grateful dead history, maybe someone could shed some light on this listing that just popped up:
https://reverb.com/item/37715592-the-joker-jerry-garcia-custom-pre-alembic-1970-natural
gotta be something special for USD $888,888.88 + 350 shipping. anybody?
It popped up on eBay a few years ago, interesting discussion ensued here https://club.alembicguitars.com/index.php?topic=11010.msg125798#msg125798
That was 2012, in 2016 we hsd another sighting https://club.alembicguitars.com/index.php?topic=21964.msg222220#msg222220
I've been fascinated by that guitar. Still no provenance, but very little doubt about its ancestry. Maybe that isn't the right word either... there must be dozens of unattributed experimentals and shopnights, but there's something about that one that makes me wonder if it might have slipped out the back door of the Chicken Coop. It is definitely old. That construction itself dates it. It was definitely not a first attempt at guitar-making either... that is some serious joinery. That nobody who should know will claim to remember the guitar... is just... odd. :-\
$350 for shipping is outrageous.
First thing I thought of when I saw that today.
Quote from: edwardofhuncote on December 14, 2020, 05:54:12 AM
Still no provenance, but very little doubt about its ancestry.
But, according to the listing, "
providence from almost a dozen luthiers from the old days !" (emphasis on both quotes added).
It looks like a really sweet guitar - but the listing is just one long string of bovine by-product; I mean, apprentices from Irwin's shop pre -Alembic? I do believe the seller is counting on most people not knowing any more than
he does.
Peter
Amen to bovine by-product. ;D (I'm gonna' use that a couple times today, Coz!) But every single ad that guy runs reads kinda' like a ransom note. He does have a very cool guitar. It has a name engraved on the tailpiece. John Cale? Whozat? Owner, maker, driver of the getaway car? Somebody somewhere knows.
*note that the name is blurred in recent pictures. Intentionally, I suppose.
No way is it pre-Alembic, as in, pre-1969. I seriously doubt even pre-'72. I'm guessing 1973-'75, just based on other guitars known to be 'providenced' from that time. <snicker>
Somebody needs to tell the lister their "8" key is stuck.
the devil's in the details, as they say:
SHIPPED FROM:
Rock MEd Dr Brainz
Seattle, WA, United States
Joined Reverb
2020
Predicted to Sell Soon
Only 1 available and 4 other people have this in their carts
to resurrect a term from back in the days of usenet:
oh, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Quote from: edwardofhuncote on December 14, 2020, 08:47:26 AM
Amen to bovine by-product. ;D (I'm gonna' use that a couple times today, Coz!) But every single ad that guy runs reads kinda' like a ransom note. He does have a very cool guitar. It has a name engraved on the tailpiece. John Cale? Whozat? Owner, maker, driver of the getaway car? Somebody somewhere knows.
*note that the name is blurred in recent pictures. Intentionally, I suppose.
John Cale? Really? I missed that. So the seller is pimping a bogus Dead connection when there's a Velvet Underground reference right on the instrument?
Curiouser & curiouser.
Peter
Under a mil for a guitar that is not only over 50 years old (yes, pre-Alembic and made by Doug Irwins' apprentices BEFORE Doug even learned how to build guitars at his kitchen table ... WOW that's rare) but has been "played by really great musicians!" However, he should really lower the price a little as it will need to have the electronics fixed. The seller admits that even when you turn the pre-amp up, you still can't hear the Montreal Symphony. I wonder how much the "hear the orchestra" upgrade will cost?
Seller also says this would make a great present, so if any of you want to show me some appreciation for all of my entertaining posts ....?
Bill, tgo
Interesting guitar! That's quite the elevator shaft going down the middle of it! I like the big connectors that look like you could swap out the entire pickup assembly in just a minute or two.
Here's (https://club.alembicguitars.com/club/messages/395/145831.html?1356044716) an old thread.
Coz, check your post #1358 in the thread Bro. Elwood linked.
...memory like a steel trap I tell ya'. Now, if I could just remember where I leave things in my shop. ::)
Quote from: edwardofhuncote on December 14, 2020, 01:09:37 PM
Coz, check your post #1358 in the thread Bro. Elwood linked.
...memory like a steel trap I tell ya'. Now, if I could just remember where I leave things in my shop. ::)
Well slap my a$$ & call me Sally, whadda ya know? I knew I'd seen this one before, but no memory of commenting on it.
Peter
Immediately after I purchase the joker iIll need to buy the Ribbecke Four Elements Wind arch top for $999,033 and then the Ribbecke "The Tree" Electric at $999,998. The Joker is cheap compared to those.
Quote from: hammer on December 14, 2020, 06:12:50 PM
Immediately after I purchase the joker iIll need to buy the Ribbecke Four Elements Wind arch top for $999,033 and then the Ribbecke "The Tree" Electric at $999,998. The Joker is cheap compared to those.
I saw those. There are two others at the same price. I'm thinking that price has to be a placeholder.
I don't know about being placeholders. they are from THE TREE 🌲 ;)
price update:
888,938.88
+$350Shipping
Predicted to Sell Soon
Only 1 available and6 other people have this in their carts
if you'd jumped when it was first listed, you could've saved $50 USD, don'tcha know.
Well, I speak only for myself, but I am only interested in discussing the guitar... this world is full of strange folks. I know, because I'm one of 'em.
The guy has something very unusual, probably unique, and the price is just a number. I don't think he honestly expects to get it. Probably doesn't know what to realistically ask for the thing. I do think the instrument is FOR SALE. It would be more easily saleable if one knew what it was. Which is part of his problem... he doesn't know for sure. And nobody who wants that kind of guitar is going to shell out five figures (much less six) for a guitar they can't authenticate. I read the old posts and ads... he's talked everybody to hell and gone that should know, with the notable exception being Alembic, (and for all I know he may have talked to them too, still came up empty-handed) and posted their replies. They all shrugged and said something to the effect of; wudden me, go ask so-and-so. Jerry Garcia, Grateful Dead connection, how? Other than obviously being built by someone well-schooled in California luthiery of the early 1970's. Tailpiece inscription says "Custom made for John Cale". If it was referring to the same person, that was Velvet Underground. Slightly different band. Unless I missed it, not even mentioned this time. Why?
Like I said - I'm only interested in learning about the guitar. I want to know more about it. It's like, the fourth or fifth time we've seen it here, and still it is a total mystery.
QuoteThe guy has something very unusual, probably unique, and the price is just a number. I don't think he honestly expects to get it. Probably doesn't know what to realistically ask for the thing
i'm with ya 100% on this one. it's obviously a very unique piece and probably has many stories to tell. what i object to is the hucksterism and name-dropping to make it larger than life in hopes of hooking a sucker. the $888K+ price is certainly eye-catching. over the last year, there's been a small parade of very questionable over-priced high-end instruments up for sale. i didn't really pay too much attention to it until i was in the market earlier this year for an upgraded instrument and had to wade my way through pages of this kind of crap. it was my contention then that if you really want to see what the market value of something is, put it up for sale in a no-reserve auction and let the masses decide. that's how i sold my last bass and i did OK, but i was prepared to take my lumps. apparently that mode of thinking has gone out of style.
so yeah, it's a really cool guitar (this coming from a bass guy). but absent any verifiable provenance, maybe it's worth a couple of grand. maybe it's time for the seller to face reality. good luck with that. otherwise it makes an entertaining target for the nattering nabobs of negativity (of which i'm a card-carrying member).
Hey, come on, this guitar has 'Providence' (not provenance). It would of course be very providential for the seller if it sold for the asking price. Personally I would love to find a guitar like this, at an estate sale, for a couple thousand bucks.
I imagine if the seller dropped the 2 left-most 8s, it'd sell in a heartbeat (drop all 3 that side of the comma & I'd buy it today, domestic tranquility be damned!)
Peter
Only updating to offer that this isn't a Brian Smith/Hyak so check that one off the list.
Thanks for the input, Mica. Those wood backplates and the general headstock shape made me wonder if it was an early evolution of his work. What an oddity.
well whatever happened, it's all moot now:
$945,000
+$600Shipping
Listing Suspended
first time i've seen an asking price go up over time, shipping as well.
So long Joker, whatever you are, whence-ever you came... see you again some other time. I reckon about 2023. ::)
There's a post from someone on the "Alembic Musical Instruments Fanpage" with lots of pictures, asking if anyone knows anything about it. Rick Turner responded, suggesting it may have been made by Alan Thompson, but only because he and a few other people have eliminated anyone else. Can't link to it and it's a closed group.
Turners reply was interesting including the information that said Mr. Thompson apparently has a reputation for "finding" parts with which to build his guitars from the companies for which he formally worked and that since he has passed away there really isn't going to be a definite answer to the question "did you build this and for whom" unless witchcraft is involved.
The modular pickup section is intriguing.
Thanks for posting-in with the extra info Harry and Brian, every little piece helps. Alan Thompson seems as good a suspect/guess as any. (Yep, that sounds like a classic RT answer... ;)) Thompson was mentioned in another recent thread as a candidate for having built a mystery guitar Stephen Stills is pictured playing. Like the "Joker" here, it has all the hallmarks of the early 70's NorCal School. https://club.alembicguitars.com/index.php?topic=25835.0
There is just something about this one though... the Omega-cut, the symmetrical horns, the extra backstraps on the headstock behind the scarf, the high-relief carve of the top. Somebody went to a lot of care building this guitar, and I can't help but think it was either a commissioned job, or a built-for-personal-use. Maybe we'll find out one day.
*FWIW, and not that I care, but the 'Suspended Listing' has been lifted, the guitar is back up. The ad has been edited, and now says something about raising money for charities. Also includes a quote from Doug Irwin claiming- "I like this guitar." (Yeah, I like it too, but unless Irwin liked it because he built it, I don't think that helps his case much) Wow.
Dear Santa... there's this guitar I like... I don't know how your schedule looks for tonight, but, uhhh... I've been pretty good this year. ::)
I was reading really old threads this weekend, ran across this one: https://club.alembicguitars.com/index.php?topic=842.0
...and immediately thought about the mysterious The Joker guitar again. Did anyone ever ask Mark Johnson about it?
I figured it was about time for this card to turn up again...
https://reverb.com/item/94794080 (https://reverb.com/item/94794080)
Do we finally learn the Joker's true lineage, or does he fade to obscurity for another season?
*FWIW, this sounds like an estate situation now.
Mystery solved, it's his!
Bill, tgo
Quote from: lbpesq on March 05, 2026, 08:55:21 AM
Mystery solved, it's his!
Bill, tgo
Haha!
Yeah, I saw this updated listing for the "Joker" guitar too - I was surprised that the updated description now completely acknowledges the ludicrous original price, although the reason given for it is a bit sad. At least the original owner's widow seems to have a sense of humor about it, and describes her late husband affectionately (but also "oddball" and "crazy man" ;D ), which is nice. RIP to him, regardless.
$9k still seems optimistic, but they're accepting offers too, so who knows what it'll go for. I kind of hope the current seller gets at least a decent price for it, given her situation, and it is a pretty awesome and unique guitar - I certainly wouldn't mind owning it!
Here are a couple detail pics I saved from long-expired ads. Fascinating how the pickups are designed to be installed or removed from this modular plug. And the engraved tailpiece, Custom Made For John Cale. Evidently a different one. Or is it Cole? Only The Joker knows.
Good question Greg; an "a" or an "o"?
There are three clear "o" characters "Custom ... For John" and one clear "a" in "Made". To me it clearly spells "John Cole".
Yes; thanks Adriaan!
I don't know if ever noticed the spelling misinterpretaion before yesterday. I looked at the picture again before posting, and thought of it. Props to Adriaan for the presence of mind to spot the other 'o's. I concur; if the engraving is true, The Joker guitar was custom made for John Cole. Still the questions remain... made by whom, and who in the world is/was he?
So weird. No one could forget a guitar like that.
Well, according to Google there was a blues guitarist named John Cole in Rochester, NY, who died of the Plague March of '20, age 79. But all online pix of him show him with a Strat or an ES-3xx-TD.
Peter
Now I'm really curious too...
Since this couldn't have been a cheap guitar at the time, there has to be a decent chance that it was a fairly "established" guitarist. So maybe Google would reveal any semi-famous John Coles who were guitar players around the time period this guitar was built?
Which is actually still a bit of a question in my mind - I know the overall style is early- to mid-70s, but is that computer-style multi-pin connector to the pickups a bit more modern? Maybe 80s? Maybe I'm wrong, and these were available even in the mid-70s.
In any case, I did some Google searching for any guitarists named John Cole that might have been active in the 70s or 80s, and found a few:
There was a British rock band called The Movies in the mid- to late-70s with lead guitarist named John Cole. Not sure if he's still around; I can't find much info about this band. Example photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/khiltscher/albums/72157624754576866/with/4904910655 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/khiltscher/albums/72157624754576866/with/4904910655)
Blues guitarist John Cole, passed away 2020. Seems less likely as the Joker doesn't scream "blues" to me, but who knows: https://hsnorton.com/tribute/details/2994 (https://hsnorton.com/tribute/details/2994)
This guitarist John Cole was featured in a YouTube product demo by Monoprice, and sort of implied to be a "known" guitarist, but I can't find any more information about him. MIGHT be old enough to have commissioned the Joker?
Anyway, I searched for as many images of guitarists named John Cole from the 70s and 80s via Google Image search, hoping maybe a single image might show someone playing The Joker live, but unfortunately I didn't see anything.
The other possibility, of course, is that John Cole was just a private player who splurged on this custom guitar, and there is little to no information on the internet about him.
Yeah, maybe Occam's razor is best applied here. It's just a custom one-off guitar, made clearly in the Alembic style, for someone who had that taste and could afford it.
Facts: there are no Alembic parts in this guitar, and no one at Alembic remembers it. Rick Turner didn't claim to either, when still living. None of the usual folks you think of... Doug Irwin didn't, nor Brian Smith. So there is no apparent direct connection. The guitar doesn't appear modified either. It was built this way by someone very skilled.
And there's the mystery. I'm willing to accept the possibility there's folks we never heard of that could have made that guitar. What I can't accept is this is the first, or only one they made.
Other questions; where did they get their templates? This guitar appears to be a combination of a couple things. The symmetrical-horned upper body is uncannily like early Alembic patterns, but with more roundover. The lower bout is more of a mid-70's Omega-cut Series guitar. The points of the Omega don't come back to the neck beam, for instance, another tell. It also isn't shaped like the earlier ones with a bit of oblong shape like the Marmaduke guitar or the Santana custom. There's another Omega-cut guitar that surfaced a few years ago too with no serial number, nothing like this. What we have in Joker is unique but it's as if someone had access to Alembic patterns. Even the backplates are correctly shaped and positioned on the body wings. Note they are mounted with only two screws though, a deviation.
All that's before we even mention the crazy amount of laminates. I count 9 layers each, for the neck and body. If I was guessing, that's a heavy guitar. 12 lbs plus wouldn't surprise me.
I had a better picture of the electronics cavity a while back but haven't kept it, so can only speculate. I seem to remember just CT pots in there and those switches. Who knows what they all do, or if they work. But it's fascinating how they must have thought this out. 7 knobs, 6 switches. Assuming the one offset from the cluster is master volume. Bridge and neck pickups are HB's, so a couple switches probably coil-tap and/or phase. A set of 3 switches to enable or disable pickups? I get dizzy thinking about how the rest of it might work. The last time I saw a jack-on-the-back was a Turner Model 27, for what that's worth.
Whoever John Cole was, he had some very high expectations!
Maybe Master Volume/Neck Volume/Neck Treble/Neck Bass/Bridge Volume/Bridge Treble/Bridge Bass; On/OffX3, Split X2, Phase?
And, speaking as someone who has spent a goodly amount of time deciphering cursive from bygone eras, I kick myself for missing the engraving on the tailpiece; I wholehearted concur with Adriaan's reading, and now have no doubt whatsoever it was made for John Cole, not Cale.
Peter
Devil is in the details. That is aesthetically beautiful.
Yes, it is lovely.
Peter
Last clue; other than the obvious similarities to Alembic shapes used for the body pattern, take note of the Alembic script logo at the top/left of the web page here...
...and then study the lettering inlaid on the Joker guitar headstock. (attaching a better pic) See it? I think this was another very conscious stylistic choice.
Unrelated to that, but clearly incorporated into the overall design is how they routed through the first two layers of the headstock to create the illusion of an omega at the tip without actually being one. These are not just seat-of-the-pants afterthoughts of a shadetree l👀thier.
Well-made points, Greg.
"Joker", eh?
Maybe some Prankster influence, as well? "Let's keep 'em guessing!"
Peter
Yep, that headstock "faux omega" (fauxmega?) is interesting. When I first saw it, I remember wondering if it once held an inlay or logo or some sort, especially given those white-ish dots inside the omega. Those might be a red herring, but my first thought was that they may be the remnants of glue that once held something in that circle, but it fell out, or maybe was even intentionally removed.
For example, if you compare it to a Hyak headstock, it starts looking quite similar:
(https://i.imgur.com/ngqFnHt.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YAdpb2U.jpeg)
But of course, it may just be exactly what it is now - a decorative omega made by routing out only the top layers. I like it as-is, but with the "JOKER" letters encircling it, it just seems to suggest that something decorative "should" go there.
Now listed for $6k.
I'm payin' off bankers and doctors. Or I'd be playin' cards.
Certainly is an interesting guitar, wonder what all of those switches do?
Quote from: rv_bass on March 22, 2026, 12:19:07 PM
Certainly is an interesting guitar, wonder what all of those switches do?
My guesses are;
The knobs; the offset one is for master volume, and the six in an array, one pot each for volume and tone for each pickup.
The switches; the three in a row are on/off switches for each pickup. The two between the master volume and bridge are coil-taps for the bridge and neck humbuckers, the one in the center of the six pots is... a kill switch. Or possibly solo's the middle single-coil?
Only the Joker and John Cole knows.
'Crazy Man's Widow' has updated the description for the mysterious Joker guitar... apparently she has discovered and confimed its lineage. There's also a description confirming the electronics. The most interesting thing, she alludes to the existence of an acoustic companion guitar.
For anyone still interested in this years-long saga, here's the link-
https://reverb.com/item/94794080