Author Topic: Please excuse the interruption (Read 581 times)

mindido · « **on:** July 22, 2012, 06:56:21 PM »

Please let me say that I don't own an Alembic nor am I even a musician (although I used to be a roadie and soundman way back in the 70's.

The reason I'm here is that my girlfriend's brother just passed a few weeks ago and left the family five guitars. Since no one in the family is a musician they asked me to dispose of the guitars. Three of them were easily identified and will be sold locally. But one has proven to be a bit of a problem which is why I'm here.

The guys over at Harmony Central have been ably assisting me in identifying this guitar and have suggested that the bridge and tail piece on the guitar may be yours from back in the 70's. One of the guys believes he found a match with one of your old ones on ebay so wanted me to come here and ask for your opinion. Please note that they do not believe the guitar was built by you, only that your bridge and tail piece were used on this guitar. I'll put a few photos of the guitar here for your inspection:

http://img158.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=007144636_IMG_5523_122_186lo.JPG]

[/URL] http://img13.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=007154946_IMG_5528_122_42lo.JPG]

[/URL] http://img173.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=007164522_IMG_5539_122_102lo.JPG]

[/URL]
http://img199.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=430071702_IMG_5593_122_176lo.JPG]

[/URL] http://img218.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=007184245_IMG_5579_122_1126lo.JPG]

[/URL]

If this is one of yours is there any way to tell more specific info about it? Sale date and who it was sold to?

If this is not one of yours please just delete this message. But thank you for any consideration.

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2012, 08:31:44 PM »

First, sorry for your loss. The bridge and tailpiece are Gibson or Gibson-style.

Peter

elwoodblue · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2012, 11:44:48 PM »

The tailpiece looks just like a Stars Guitars part that I have on a Les Paul, I bet some of those other brass pieces came from there too.
The mods (inlays,headstock reshaping) have that 70's San Fran vibe.

headless · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2012, 07:53:35 AM »

First an introduction:

I am, headless, (my username at Harmony Cenral, as well), and I am one of the guys trying to help mindido with his quest to positively idendify his mystery guitar. I don't own an Alembic, but have admired their designs since I was a teen, in the seventies.

The reason I sent mindido to your forum is we found an ebay auction (now closed) that had a bridge indentical to the one on mindido's guitar, and it was identified as a, 1970's N.O.S. Alemic Bridge.

I know that this bridge isn't the type that is to be found on any Alembic factory guitar, but it does share the unique design of each saddle having an adjustment machine-screw, with a parallel guide-rod.

In reading the (long-version) history, at the Alembic site, I see that in 1977 Alembic began selling, Kit Parts. And I was thinking that mindido's bridge might be one of those kit-part items. (I assume Alembic was branching into the market that DiMarzio and Schecter had carved-out, by marking drop-in replacement parts for Gibson and Fender guitars)

I know that it's possible that those kit-parts were made by another manufacturer, and marketed through Alembic. But Alembic may have had these bridges made to their spec's, since they have a unique design.

I was just hoping that one of you had seen some of these briges in you travels, and could positively identify it.

I did some reseach on elwoodblue's suggest of a Stars Guitar part and found this page:

http://www.a6string.net/MI/Hardware/hardware.html

And although those bridge do have some resemblance, their body shape is quite different, and, more significant, they don't use the unique saddle adjustment/stabilizer, that mindido's (and Alembic's) bridge has.

I've not seen any other maker's bridge with the same saddle adjustmen/stabilzer arrangement, but I'm far from an expert.

With the overall 70's vibe of the the guitar, I thought maybe one of the old-timers (hey, I'm one myself) in the Alembic culture might have come across a similar instrument.

Thanks in advance, for your help.

keith_h · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2012, 09:24:25 AM »

I'm wondering if it is a Japanese import from the 70's that has been modified.

As a side note I did find a couple of pictures of Gibsons with similar bridges. Here is a link to a Les Paul. There is also a Heritage on the same site with this style.

I take it there are no labels or markings inside the body cavity that might help identify it's make?

Keith

mindido · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2012, 09:30:52 AM »

headless,

Oh man, thanks for the help. To others on this forum, headless is the person who sent me here so I guess you can blame him if this discussion goes south

Anyway, I'm also following up on elwood's suggestions. Elwood, if possible, could you post pictures of those parts on the Les Paul? That would certainly help.

Also, ran across this page:

http://www.strat-talk.com/forum/stratocaster-discussion-forum/22659-jerry-garcias-alligator-graham-nash-strat.html

Scroll down to post 6 by tommytele for the exact post. Here's his picture:

http://img206.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=055513902_1980StarzGuitarsSFbridgebytommytele01_122_364lo.jpg]

[/URL]

The bridge is different but the tail piece is almost identical.

Further down in the thread someone named aegert (post 19) suggests:

3) Bridge was made by Turner at alembic and it is the first Alembic style bridge.. Yes stars made an exact version of this too but sans the Brass block that is press fit into the body of the filled strat.

Does this make sense to any of you?

Again, thank you for any consideration.

mindido · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2012, 09:34:48 AM »

cozmik cowboy,

First, sorry for your loss. The bridge and tailpiece are Gibson or Gibson-style.

Peter

Thank you. Yeah, it wasn't pretty. Head and throat cancer are pretty horrible.

mindido · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2012, 10:19:01 AM »

keith_h,

Thanks for your interest.

I'm wondering if it is a Japanese import from the 70's that has been modified.

That is still under consideration. To this point I have been unable to find any marks on the body of the guitar other than the logo (?) on the head. I started there and, after doing a google search on processions of the moon, found the Kawai MoonSault, a Japanese guitar definitely made in the 80's and 90's and, possibly, in the 70's (no one is really sure about that). So it appears the MoonSault is this guitars closest relative. But, MoonSaults are very rare in the US which brings up the question of how this guitar wound up in north central Wisconsin. We think we have a reasonable answer for that.

I then contacted two websites which specialize in Japanese guitars. Neither was able to identify this guitar. One of them, Tony at kawaiguitars.com finally sent me to Harmony Central. And they've sent me here. So a Japanese origin is not yet out of the question.

As a side note I did find a couple of pictures of Gibsons with similar bridges. Here is a link to a Les Paul. There is also a Heritage on the same site with this style.

I did take a look at that but, either because of the quality of the photos or the quality of my eyes (probably the latter), couldn't make a positive id. Need better photos.

I take it there are no labels or markings inside the body cavity that might help identify it's make?

Keith

Correct. See above.

For those with an interest here's a link to the discussion at Harmony Central:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2930406-Help-needed-from-guitar-detectives&s=3fadc7e911bfd7e9983a79a1c409b118

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2012, 11:14:18 AM »

On second look, I notice that the bridge-mount studs are offset - I withdraw my Gibson ID. The tailpiece still looks Gibby to me; what's it made of (brass, aluminum, etc)?

Peter

headless · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2012, 11:19:52 AM »

keith h,

I looked at both the Les Paul and the Heritgage:

http://www.vintageandrareguitars.com/web/our-catalogue/Other%20Makers/Electric%20Guitars/item/8097

The Les Paul bridge appears to be a fairly conventional Tune-o-Matic, apart from being brass.

The Heritage bridge does bear some resemblance to mindido's guitar, in the shape of the bridge's main (cast?machined?)body structure. But it varies in two ways from our mystery-guitar

-mindido's bridge has staggerd mounting-post holes, which, when mounted on the post of a stock Gibson would allow the bridge to sit parallel to the tailpiece (unlike a stock Gibson, on which the bridge sits at a slight angle)

-midido's bridge has the Alembic style construction of one threaded intonation adjustment machine-screw and one guide-rod, per saddle (sorry, I don't know the Alembic terminology on their bridge saddle structure).

Does anyone know of any other bridge that has this structure, other than Alembic bridges?

Does anyone know who the designer was of the Alembic bridge, and if that designer possibly marketed aftermarket versions?

Thanks, for your help.

mindido · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2012, 11:48:25 AM »

cozmik cowboy,

Please let me reiterate that I am pretty much a complete novice at these things. Shoot, a few days ago I barely knew what a bridge was. Headless, on the other hand seems to know a lot about these things. I will defer to him on any decisions.

Anyway, I just spent quite a while following up on the Gibson idea. Found a few photos with some detail so I will upload them if you guys wish. But it seems as if that idea has been quashed.

I'll let you guys decide. The photos do look very similar for the tailpiece (from what I can tell) but the bridges are all very different.

mindido · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2012, 11:55:39 AM »

cozmik cowboy,

Oops, almost forgot:

The tailpiece still looks Gibby to me; what's it made of (brass, aluminum, etc)?

I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure its brass.

keith_h · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2012, 12:23:26 PM »

The thing that makes me think it is not Alembic, although it might have been influence by, is I have never seen a stabilizer that was threaded on an Alembic. I have only seen the stabilizer on the the post channel style bridges. If I recall correctly this occurred somewhere in the late 70's. I also seem to recall the stabilizer not being on the early versions of the post channel bridge design.

Keith

mica · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2012, 12:35:26 PM »

I've seen a guitar with a bridge like that before, it wasn't one that we made, but I do remember it. If my brain cooperates with me and tells me where I saw it before, I'll come back to this thread and share.

headless · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2012, 12:49:14 PM »

Keith h,

You make an excellent point about the fact the each saddle rides on two thread rods (in the case of midido's guitar). In fact, I suspect that for one to adjust the into nation of a saddles, both threaded rods would have to be adjusted--first a little on one side of the bridge, then a little on the other side of the bridge (it looks as though there are hex-socket heads on oppossing sides of the bridge).

It makes one wonder if this bridge (and possibly the entire guitar) is part of the wave of Japanese imports who's design was heavily influenced by Alembic, Moonstone and others (I hate to use the word, copy, but it might apply here).

I'm not so familiar with all the Japanese makers who were doing this, so if any of you fellows are familiar, perhaps you could write a quick list, and I'll do some net research on them.

Thanks in advance