Author Topic: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson  (Read 76042 times)

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2015, 07:23:12 AM »
Jimmy J, someone's bound to have asked you before, and I hate to pile on with a pesky question, but what's the story on your right-hand technique? Specifically, positioning as you do, up next to the fingerboard. I gotta' think it's deliberate, but how in the cat hair do you do it?  
 
Reasoning - I've been experimenting lately outside my comfort zone. Typically I will end up slightly behind my neck pickup, often resting my thumb on it. (keeping in mind, my current Alembic is a Persuader 5 equipped with P/J activators) There's a lot of real-estate between that P and my fingerboard that I haven't really been using, and I do like some of the things about playing up near the board... for one, I'm able to get some of that deep upright-ish response, I guess from the extra string travel, but I find it very difficult to get any speed there. Plus, the eq'ing I'm used to is all wrong. Then there is my action, which is just stupid-low, also not condusive to playing up there.
 
So, a penny and a half for your thoughts or pointers. As always - you da' MAN!
 
PS - some of this will hopefully carry over to my Custom fretless 5-string build, as Mica and I discussed pickup locations a while back, ultimately landing on the neck PU offset 5/8 from the fingerboard, and the bridge PU offset 5/8 from the bridge.

JimmyJ

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2015, 01:36:43 PM »
Gregory,
 
Good question!  The short answer is: I don't know what I'm doing and I'm fairly unaware of what my right hand is up to.
 
Remembering that my output trimpots are set to feature the bridge pu more than the neck pu, where I pluck the string is just me responding to whatever tone I'm hearing.  If it needs to be deeper I end up near the neck.  If it needs more bite the hand moves closer to the bridge.  I think I do it automatically but I'd have to watch some video of myself playing and I'm just not up for that.  HA!!
 
Now standby for a VERY long followup to this as I put some graphics and ideas together.....
 
Jimmy J

to_81_0190

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2015, 06:42:40 PM »
I could see Jimmy's right hand from very close to stage at Osaka.
I'm going to try to explain Jimmy's right hand.
 
In addition to plucking position, he has many other variations.
He plucks his finger tip or belly, vertically or parallel to string, soft to hard.
soft to hard is very simple in words but I can't express more about this.
There might be more.
He uses these techniques phantasmagoric!
I dno't know how many tone variations he have.
 
I hope my English is correct.
 
Toshiaki

JimmyJ

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2015, 09:36:37 AM »
Thank you Toshiaki-san, that is a very kind description!  And you've saved me from trying to figure out what the heck I'm doing.  Ha!
 
Now for my long silly thoughts...
Excuse me while I put on my amateur scientist?s hat.  We all understand the principle of the vibrating string.  The combination of tension and length dictate the pitch of the fundamental note.  There are also several overtones which speak with the fundamental (I think they?re called ?partials? when they are part of the tone) plus some mechanical noise like fret rattle which together makes up our overall sound.
 
I believe ? because the neck pu is closer to the center of the string it ?hears? more of the fundamental.  The bridge pu nearer the termination of the string ?hears? more of the overtones or shorter vibrations.  I think that generally explains why our two pickups have different tonal character, just because of the physical location in relation to the string.  Make sense?
 
Now about this overtone series, which we can also play as harmonics (a finger resting on the string above the 12th fret divides the string into 2 equal parts and sounds the pitch one octave above the fundamental).
 
The overtone series continues with smaller and smaller equal divisions of the string.  Split into 3 equal parts creates the next overtone pitch which happens to be an octave and a 5th above the fundamental.  3rd in the series, 4 equal parts, sounds 2 octaves above the fundamental.  Etc.
 
The next few start to get a little squirrelly.  The pitches produced are not all in line with the ?equal tempered scale? which we are used to hearing (in most Western Hemisphere music).
 
The worst offender is when the string is divided into 7 equal parts (the harmonic roughly above the 3rd fret of our fingerboards).  The pitch produced is a very flat 7th to the fundamental and pretty painful if heard as part of a chord for any length of time.  (Just ask Mica about the time she could ONLY hear that ugly overtone as she was testing instruments!)
 
Now the good stuff!  (Finally).  What?s the easiest way to prevent or limit the amount of that particular partial in the sound?  That would be to initiate the vibration right on that ?node? so that the string has little chance of dividing into 7 parts.  This is not a new idea, check this out:
 

 
I learned that from my dad who was a piano technician as well as a bassist.  The best sounding grand pianos purposely strike the string right on that node so as to limit the amount of ugly 7th in the sound.  This is almost impossible to do in a small upright piano and that?s why the lower strings often have a gnarly sound.  
 
Now, what does this have to do with this thread?  Well, one of the nodes of that overtone happens to be just on the bridge side of the neck pu.  If you were to want the least amount of that clashing overtone in with the fundamental you would pluck the note right there!  That could probably be considered the sweet spot for fundamental and overtones.  
 
Of course, that sweet spot moves as you move up the neck and shorten the string.  If you played a note on the 12th fret, the node would be 1/2 way from the spot I describe above to the bridge, etc.
 
So in conclusion.  A-hem.  This probably has NOTHING to do with the question you asked - but I believe I do generally seek this sweet spot when playing.  That said, lately my right hand seems to be lurking closer to the fingerboard so I must be reaching for a deeper sound and this entire lengthy story is MOOT.  But maybe interesting, I hope.
 
Best to all,
Jimmy J

edwardofhuncote

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2015, 10:55:36 AM »
Wow, fascinating... Thanks Jimmy J!  
 
Must confess, I went back and searched for videos with you doing gigs other than with JT, and found that Toshiaki is spot-on. (this means exactly correct Toshiaki, your English is excellent) Watching your solos with the Gadd ensemble, and Holdsworth, I see a whole different side to your playing.  
 
Funny thing is, (hang on a minute while I reach for the dunce hat) that's exactly what I learned to do in the same subconscious manner with the upright... simply move my right hand closer or further from the bridge according to what my brain tells me what bass tone the song is calling for at any particular moment.  
 
Guess it boils down to, I just don't have the experience yet, but I feel like an important bridge has been crossed here, just with the realization there are so many possibilities with altering right hand on bass guitar as on upright.  
 
My dunce hat fits just fine - Thanks!

elwoodblue

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2015, 12:13:48 PM »
Good stuff Jimmy,
This reminds me of Asimov's Music to my ears, a cool little essay(that apparently isn't online).
 
I didn't know that about the hammer placement on grand pianos.

reinier

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2015, 12:52:08 PM »
Just struck me that today it's 7 years and a month since you jumped in on this thread in your honour and there you are again with yet another very educational & inspirational contribution, on top of all the great music you played already. Thank you for being here.

bigredbass

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2015, 10:56:16 PM »
Greg, we don't hear the shift in tone with your right hand position on two pickup basses as easily:  Next time you're around a P-Bass or any single p/u bass, pluck along from the fingerboard end to the bridge and it's REAL obvious.  Play at the bridge with a heavy pick, and it's instant Telecaster; pluck with the fat part of your fingers at the last fret and it's instant EB-O.
 
I'm with Jimmy on the partials.  That's why lots of basses have that dead 'B' on the D-string up the neck (interacting and increasing or restraining it depending on the neck materials as well:  REAL stiff neck material like an ebony striped Alembic neck or a composite neck you never hear it.  Get a funky, soft wood neck on a more simple axe, and in some cases you think there's almost a missing fret at that spot).  And different axes present these partials on an individual and unique basis.  This is why you have an axe that records well, but may be only so-so on stage, and vice-versa.
 
This sort of thing is more obvious on acoustic instruments, but it is still very present in solid bodies.  The electronics are the constant, but the snowflake-like variation in wood (as in acoustics) is what gives them their sonic fingerprint for those with good-enough ears who've been able to listen to many examples of the same axe.
 
Joey

JimmyJ

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2015, 06:58:48 AM »
Excellent post Joey, thanks for that.  
 
I'm amazed you point to the 'B' on the D-string because I have a semi-dead B-flat on my D-string.  That is the only note which doesn't want to sustain like the others.  And only that B-flat on that string - all other B-flats are fine.  
 
Thing is, if I lean the headstock into the wall and play that note it sustains normally - BUT - then the 'F' on the G-string goes away.  
 
I just figured that note in that spot resonates the wood in such a way that the wood absorbs it - I think they're referred to as wolf notes on acoustic instruments.  And all we can do is learn where the oddities are and avoid them or work around them as best we can.  
 
I still use that note, it's not completely gone.  Alembic basses are SO even across the fingerboard that one single spot is not a problem.  It is also an indicator to me that fresh strings would be a good idea (which seems to help).
 
Interesting stuff!
Jimmy J

bigredbass

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2015, 11:09:50 AM »
Jimmy, someone smarter than me can nail it, but essentially it's the convergence of the tempered scale, string diameter, resonance in the neck, where the partials fall, etc., for that B and F.  
 
Alembics are certainly not alone, and it varies from axe to axe, and I'd be very surprised it it's the same phenomenon across your family of Series axes.  Interestingly, in my two axes, it's virtually non-existent on the BRB with the deluxe laminates, but prompted more easily on my green Elan with the pinstripe laminates.  Not a big thing, but listen closely and you'll hear it.
 
We never notice this in recordings or well-engineered live shows as usually an intelligent amount of compression tends to smooth out the small variations.
 
Joey

adriaan

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #70 on: October 20, 2015, 11:55:17 PM »
Jimmy, looking forward to seeing you with the Steve Gadd Band in Zoetermeer on November 5!

jos

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2015, 11:15:52 AM »
Hi Jimmy! I will be in Stockholm next weekend for your concert with the Steve Gadd Band! It will be great to listen to you guys, two of my all time favorites. Do you have any time to meet during your stay? Best Regards, Jan-Olof

JimmyJ

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2015, 02:14:05 PM »
Adriaan, hope we have a chance to chat.
 
Jan, it's a rare two-nighter at Fasching so I guess I'll be there on Sunday for sure.  However, looking over our travel plans it's possible I will be sleeping that whole day.  Ha!
 
Hope to see you both.
Jimmy J

jos

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2015, 10:29:23 AM »
Hi Jimmy! Thank you for a great concert at Fasching Jazz Club!?It was amazing!! The band was smoking and the rhythm section cannot get much better. Really GREAT bass sound??...tight and deep??..Hope to see you soon again!!  
Best Regards, J-O-S

JimmyJ

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Re: Jimmy "Flim" Johnson
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2015, 03:39:46 PM »
Hey J-O-S,
 
Thanks for making the scene in Stockholm!  I enjoyed talking with you and am pleased that we agree on so many aspects of the World of Bass.  From gear to sound to how we think about what we get to do.  Good stuff!
 
See you next time,
Jimmy J