Author Topic: Series I vs. Series II Electronics (Read 1143 times)

bigredbass · « **Reply #30 on:** October 11, 2013, 01:08:39 AM »

Well, Ed, it is, and it isn't: Our friend Will Gunn has a stack of four Acme's B1's (the single 10 3-way), stacks the four vertically, and reports he really likes it !

J o e y

(Message edited by bigredbass on October 11, 2013)

rustyg61 · « **Reply #31 on:** October 11, 2013, 01:12:29 AM »

As long as my bass sounds great to me in my little 5' X 5' world on stage I'm happy. It's the soundman's job to make it sound great to everyone else! :-)

sonicus · « **Reply #32 on:** October 11, 2013, 02:09:59 AM »

Joey , I know what you are talking about the regarding the older RTA's .I still have one of those. My WHITE INSTRUMENTS MODEL 140 is from that era . Made in USA in Austin , Texas and built to last for ever ! My most recent RTA is a GOLDLINE DSP30RM it is more complex but has features so that your readings can appear a little less squirrelly . I have used both units with satisfaction in various applications including a bass rig with satisfaction.
The calibrated microphone and it's placement are critical to what the RTA tells you .

One of my worst experiences EVER___ that I have had with hearing my self was at a gig at a venue called The Keystone Palo Alto. I was playing bass for country singer and song writer Howard Harrelson. I was told just to bring a minimal amount of gear so I took just one little Alembic A-15 bass cabinet instead of the four like I had intended to bring and my SUNN 2000S head and Fender Dual Showman. The Bass that I had was my old Guild Starfire with the EARLY ALEMBIC TRAPEZOIDAL PICKUPS , it was a good pure and clean sounding bass .I was told that the FOH guys would take care of me. What they ended up doing to my bass sound was awful . To make things even worse ,most of what I heard was my bass back slap off the back wall with delay. Pure slow delayed mud like molasses in January ! ___ I played in the Cow Palace a few years after that which is even a larger room and that was even better. Thinking in retrospect now regarding the low frequency back slap delay problem at the Keystone Palo Alto , I believe that they might have been able correct it with a piece of gear that I now own , A t.c. electronic model 1280 and or perhaps and/or a combination of side fill monitors . All old school stuff ! Because I am an Old School Dog .

(Message edited by sonicus on October 11, 2013)

5a_quilt_top · « **Reply #33 on:** October 11, 2013, 09:36:50 AM »

Apologizing in advance that this has nothing directly to do with Series I and II electronics.

I'm beginning to wonder if an onstage rig is necessary / appropriate for bass.

The closest I've come to what I think is an ideal solution to the I can't hear myself, but I still sound muddy and loud in the room problem is to use a DI with a line out to both the PA and also to my own private monitor - which faces up at me.

I control the level of my private monitor and ask the soundperson to mix as much (or little) of me in the PA monitors as the other band members require.

The drummer usually wants to hear a little more bass and the guitarist and vocalists want less.

I'm good with hearing mainly mids and highs through my monitor (because they cut through the stage mix) and feeling the thump from the mains.

This way, the whole PA becomes my bass rig and I have more room to move around on stage and less to carry!

Edwin - with the recent advances in sound reproduction technology, a portable version of your line array idea may be closer than you think.

edwin · « **Reply #34 on:** October 11, 2013, 09:53:53 AM »

Our friend Will Gunn has a stack of four Acme's B1's (the single 10 3-way), stacks the four vertically, and reports he really likes it !

It is a cool way to set things up, but it's not even close to a bass line array. For a 4 string, it needs to be more than 30 feet tall and for a 5 string it needs to be more than 40 feet tall. Otherwise it still propagates as a portion of a sphere and throws the sound into the ceiling and floor and excites the vertical modes a lot more. By using a line array, the horizontal room modes are the biggest problem and the vertical modes get a lot more manageable. Bass in a room is just a complicated hot mess! Some have experimented with cardioid speakers, where subs behind the main subs are set up and the phase and amplitude with respect to the main subs are adjusted to control dispersion, sort of like the opposite of a multipattern microphone.

lbpesq · « **Reply #35 on:** October 11, 2013, 10:23:27 AM »

As I recall, the tallest column in the infamous Wall of Sound (the Grateful Dead one, not the other infamous Phil Spector Wall of Sound) was about 32' tall and was specifically for Lesh's low E string.

Bill, tgo

flpete1uw · « **Reply #36 on:** October 11, 2013, 12:30:36 PM »

This is a great post on the real life scenarios,
Jazzy, We have discussed this on other posts about our Series learning curve / Dialing in sounds.
To date my main Bass is my Distillate for A- It sounds Great and B- the ease of the dial in.
An interesting quote from the Rouge ad ?The controls are easy to navigate on a busy stage, but versatile enough to cover a broad range of sounds.? My Distillate is close enough to fit this bill.
Still on the Series learning curve.

Dave 5A, Direct out from Mesa Walkabout to PA and Amp as my monitor works for me as well. You just have to trust the sound guy to do the right thing. ;-/?
~Pete

keith_h · « **Reply #37 on:** October 11, 2013, 08:13:25 PM »

Using a cardioid arrangement for PA subs is not unusual. It can resolve several room caused issues with bass and help boost bass output outdoors when the number of subs is marginal. The biggest problem of using the pattern is it tends to throw more bass on stage which can be good or bad depending upon your perspective.

Keith

cozmik_cowboy · « **Reply #38 on:** October 12, 2013, 08:33:27 AM »

Phil's Wall columns were each 18 1X15 cabs, so 32' is probably right, but they were assigned to the strings in groups of 9. IIUIC, when in quad, it was 1/2 column per string, but most of the time it was one column per p/pup, so the 32' would be for all 4 strings.

Peter

tmimichael · « **Reply #39 on:** October 20, 2013, 10:43:25 AM »

Hey David,
I'm on the band wagon with you. I stopped bringing a stage rig a couple of years ago when our guitarist and I joined our drummer by going with in-ear monitors. Not only does it clean up a TON of stage volume, but I can hear what I'm playing and and eq eq changes that I make so perfectly now, that I just don't need an amp on stage. We have a pretty good PA as well, and since I'm running direct thru a Demeter preamp, it sounds beautiful out front. (JBL STX 825's with SRX 718's tri-amped with Crest CA series amps and a Crest console. DBX Driverack PA+ control). I love a crystal clear bass sound, so this works really well for me, plus my band mates can hear me just as clearly.

edwin · « **Reply #40 on:** October 20, 2013, 11:21:12 AM »

That works out great when you can bring your own PA. I have a split with a Metric Halo based recording rig that I use for in ears and it's amazing how many times I get blamed for problems that exist in the house PA. Not to mention house sound guys that are unclear on the concept of a splitter. Oh well.

tmimichael · « **Reply #41 on:** October 20, 2013, 11:42:40 AM »

Edwin...you got that right! We're pretty lucky that we have only had 1 place that insists that we use the house system, and we don't play there very often. I spent a lot of time (and we spent a lot of money) to get our system the way we wanted to be heard...like a massive stereo. So we're glad that most places expect us to use our system.