Author Topic: Series I vs. Series II Electronics (Read 1139 times)

edwin · « **Reply #15 on:** October 04, 2013, 05:46:42 PM »

I've found that I vastly prefer having the CVQ. My perception of the Q control is that it adjusts the nature of the attack of the string. Especially now that I'm playing primarily with a pick, I discover that the adjustment of Q is almost more important than the adjustment of the frequency. So, while I think both construction details are great, I would always opt for having a CVQ instead of a three way switch. But that's just me. It makes it a lot less easily repeatable when it comes to finding tones, but to a certain extent, I don't care about that. I want what's good at the moment.

rustyg61 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 09, 2013, 01:21:39 AM »

Edwin, I think you hit the nail on the head with I want what's good at the moment. I used to write down my amp & SF-2 settings for each venue I played thinking that the next time I played the same venue I could just duplicate the settings & get the sound I had previously liked there. I have since come to realize that doesn't always work. There are way too many variables to the sound you hear, the age of your strings, the density of the crowd, position of your amp, volume level of your bandmates, the list goes on & on! I think it's much more important to have a good understanding of what the controls on your bass & amp are doing & tweek them at each performance to get a sound that is appealing to you in that moment. Writing down my settings got me in the ball park, but I almost always fine tuned the settings to get a sound that I was happy with. So now I don't write down my settings but use my ears to find the sound that works for each gig. I think the CVQ offers much more fine tuning capabilities than the 3 way toggles. Adriaan, I like your idea of a rotary CVQ with 3dB increments. I have actually been talking with Susan about getting CVQ pots with a center indent like they have on the pan pot & set it at 8dB in the center like the Q switch on my SCSD. Then I would have a point of reference other than full on & full off with the center boost being what I'm used to hearing on my current bass. She is checking to see if their supplier can make that.

jazzyvee · « **Reply #17 on:** October 09, 2013, 04:05:17 AM »

Good thing about adding some descrete click stops on the CVQ pot is that you would then have the option of running the bass in series I or II mode or using the click stops as coarse control then fine tuning it either side of the stop.

Getting a repeatable sound at a gig is always going to be an ongoing learning experience and a challenge for all the reasons you state rusty and more. I'm sure pro's like Jimmy and Stanley have it off to a fine art now and pretty much get the sound they want. Even if you are a find one sound on your bass and stick to it type of player everything outside your bass can change. I'm a knob twiddler now because with the filters I can be. Sometimes less is more. Gigging with the standard single filter europa controls is so easy but because I'm aware of what the one filter per pickup arrangement gives me I found myself reaching for a sound that is not available from a single filter which is the main reason I changed the electronics inside that bass. Everything is there with a series II but you just have to dedicate a lot of gigging time to it as I've found the bass sounds radically different on stage to how it sounds in my home.
Jazzyvee

sonicus · « **Reply #18 on:** October 09, 2013, 09:02:04 AM »

In theory ; With current technology , replication of the response characteristics might not be so difficult through the utilization of RTA with memory presets . My new Goldline RTA DSP30RM is capable of such a task. Measurement of response characteristics in each situation could be made and then replicated to correlate a previous Sonic Event.

Sonic Regards ____

edwin · « **Reply #19 on:** October 09, 2013, 09:49:18 AM »

Perhaps. It sounds a little complicated to analyze results and then try to recreate them with onboard and offboard components. Maybe it could an opportunity to repurpose the motorized pots found in amps like the Soldano. With an onboard microprocessor, you could save presets on the bass and the pots would physically remember the correct position.

sonicus · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 2013, 10:02:47 AM »

Edwin ,precisely ! That is where I was going with this in my mind as well!, Cheers !!!!! A memory card could save your Sonic Events and recall your settings at your command, similar to motorized flying faders on a control surface interface .

(Message edited by sonicus on October 09, 2013)

rustyg61 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2013, 07:51:30 PM »

I'm still waiting for the Find My Sound app for my iPhone! LOL! You could have a 3D Spectrum Analyzer on your phone that you could store snapshots of the sound you like & it would tune your bass & amp VIA Bluetooth to match the snapshot. It would be a real time analyzer so it would take into account the acoustic changes of the room as the crowd varies so you have constant tweeking to maintain the sound you want. Kind of a sonic Auto Pilot if you will! Of course it would require a Bluetooth capable bass & amp or SF-2. Might as well dream big, right?!

sonicus · « **Reply #22 on:** October 09, 2013, 08:40:21 PM »

Rusty, your dream is not so unrealistic . I do believe that there are a few good software RTA programs out there. I have a few hardware RTA's . Metric Halo makes a good software Audio Measurement Program called
SpectraFoo http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/products/software/spectrafoo.html

rustyg61 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 09, 2013, 09:21:23 PM »

Thanks Wolf! Now they just need to modify it to communicate with your rig to automatically adjust the EQ to get the sound you want. TC Electronics has their Tone Print patches to make their amps sound like famous bass players, but this would take it a step further, analyzing the room acoustics in real time & adjusting your rig to get the sound you like. In my fantasy, I would tell Siri to Make me sound like Jimmy Johnson & the app would set my amp & bass to get that sound taking the room acoustics into account.

sonicus · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2013, 09:55:34 PM »

Rusty ,
Automated RTA/EQ gear is gaining popularity these days .I have not used this one for Bass rigs but it is quite popular in the Hotel/Convention AV audio vendor scene these days;

http://www.dbxpro.com/en-US/products/driverack-pa

bigredbass · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2013, 09:58:46 PM »

I can 'sound like Jimmy Johnson': It's that 'Make me play like Jimmy Johnson' that I don't believe Siri is ever going to offer. If she did, though, sign me up for the 'Hang with James Taylor' app post haste !

Or to quote, 'HA !'

J o e y

rustyg61 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 09, 2013, 10:09:50 PM »

Wolf, we have a Drive Rack on our PA now but it is the older version & I don't think it has the auto EQ function. Our soundman set it for our PA & he never adjusts it anymore.

J o e y, the Make me play like Jimmy Johnson app will be standard on iOS 36, we are currently on iOS 7! LOL!

bigredbass · « **Reply #27 on:** October 10, 2013, 11:04:19 PM »

Incidentally . . . . I worked for a sound contractor back in the day who was a very early adopter of RTA to 'shoot the room' to speed up set-up in the 10 to 30,000 seaters we were doing.

I got to play around RTA-ing my bass rig.

Don't go there.

Bass loose in any room, from your bedroom to large venues is like trying to catch a greased elephant who is deep in the throes of mating season. There are traps, there are hot spots, and 'standing waves' actually look like those Weather Channel shots of the beach right before the hurricane comes in. . . . and the next minute in a different frequency is resembles lava flowing uphill. It quickkly became a question of 'what do you want to sound like where', inevitably resulting in a correct tone setting to accomplish that, inevitably resulting in a setting that was just horrible standing in front of it. That was 25 years ago, I HOPE it's better now.

It's no wonder that Jimmy talks about not having a rig on stage to aggravate the FOH guy's job is certainly the preferred way to go, it's just very hard to control.

Next time you play a big room, if you're on a wireless, walk all around the empty room and you will be dumbstruck at just how much it varies from spot to spot, and remember it will be utterly different tonight when it's full of people.

I even have to find the 'sweet spot' in my practice room. I never conquered this, and is a big part of why I refuse to play out any more, I could never hear myself properly.

I would posit it is gonna take way more than the bass rigs that are around now, and enough computing power to rival the NSA to truly solve this for me.

J o e y

rustyg61 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 10, 2013, 11:54:44 PM »

J o e y, I'm with you on the ever evolving room acoustics. That's why I tend to stand in one spot when I play & I EQ my amp for that spot! I played an outdoor gig last weekend & used my full Eden rig with a 1X15 & 4X10 stack. I spent 30 minutes trying to get the sound I wanted only to realize the problem was that I was trying to adjust it to sound good 1 foot away from the amp where I was standing! Once I walked away & stood about 10 feet away it sounded great! Luckily that sweet spot for my sound was also the convergeance point of my fan on my left & my guitar player's fan on my right, so it was the coolest spot on stage too! I normally use my Fender Rumble 350 tilted back like a floor monitor about 5 feet from my left ear & it is pretty easy to get a good sound at that range, especially using my SF-2. I guess the ultimate bass rig would be to have speakers all around the room like the surrond sound in a movie theater. I used to have a pair of matching cabinets that had a 15 JBL front loaded in a bass reflex scoop box with a 10 above it in it's own isolated section of the box. I would put one on each side of the stage facing in like a side fill monitor & that worked pretty well getting consistant tone across the stage.

Rusty

edwin · « **Reply #29 on:** October 11, 2013, 01:03:30 AM »

I think that the Wall of Sound was an attempt to deal with these issues by setting up a line array. When the bass cabinet is taller than the longest wave you're trying to throw, the physics change and it gets to be a bit more uniform around the space. I've only heard a bass line array once, and the low end was startlingly the same regardless of where I went. And extremely deep and quick. Sadly, it's not practical.