Author Topic: Series I vs. Series II Electronics  (Read 1112 times)

stout71

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 301
    • My Facebook Page
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« on: October 04, 2013, 09:06:18 AM »
For all you guys that have played and/or owned basses with both versions of Series electronics, what are your thoughts on differences in overall sound? I know perception is everything and everyone has different ears, but I'm trying to get a very general idea.  I realize that the continuous filter on the II is a big step up (in price also), but I'm interested in knowing the differences in sound quality in practice.  All thoughts are greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

jazzyvee

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8707
  • Bass, Guitar, Preamps.
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2013, 11:08:05 AM »
I'm still very new to series I & II basses and so I can't claim any real long term experience but from what my ears tell me. There is no difference in sound quality between the basses but there is a difference in how each bass sounds.  
 
My basses sound different to each other but that could be more to do with the physics of how the instrument has been constructed rather than the electronics. Series I has a neck pickup closer to the base of neck than the series II which in it's defence has three thick ebony laminations in the neck. So the pickups are going to pick up a different set of vibrations from the strings because of that and hence  have a different frequency spectrum providing the overall tone. Hence, the Series I has a more pronounced bottom end which is warmer, heavier in the reggae sense of the word and meatier than the series II, which again has a big bottom end but it is less emphasised and more balanced sonically across the whole of the instrument.
 
Even though the CVQ gives more sound options I've never picked up my series I to play and felt damn.... there was a sound I'm looking for that I can't find here so I better get my series II. But I have put down my Series II because I'm fighting the controls on it. Both basses are fantastic Instruments to perform music with and I'm convinced Alembic have not designed the basses to compete with each other, rather to give musicians options that suit how they want to get their tone. Simply with the Q-switches and more precisely with the CVQ.  
 
I hope that helps. I know there is a mature group of series bass players here and they will definitely give you far better insights than I can. I will be watching this thread.  
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

stout71

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 301
    • My Facebook Page
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2013, 11:16:13 AM »
Actually, that's pretty good stuff, Jazzy.  I misspoke when I used the term sound QUALITY for sound.  I guess tonal difference commentary is what I'm after.  I'm so in love with my new 5'r with anniversary electronics that now I'm considering another custom build.  Many thanks.

David Houck

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15597
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2013, 11:26:43 AM »
My approach is to set up the bass and the rig together.  When the S1 was my primary instrument, I was in a band.  The bass and rig were setup such that changing positions on the Q switches would give me an expected change appropriate to the song or passage that we were playing.  For instance I might flip a switch right before a bass solo or a quiet passage.  I had setups for mellow, slap, etc.
 
By the time I got my S2 the band gig had ended and my focus changed; I have essentially just been sitting at home practicing everyday.  Here again, the bass and rig are adjusted together to arrive at whatever change in tone I am looking for.  But the continuously variable Q gives me a much wider pallet to work with.
 
I've noticed that sometimes I'll love the tone I'm getting, then the very next day, without changes to any settings, I'll find it lacking.  I think that perhaps it's like matching the tone coming from the speakers with how I am feeling physically, emotionally, spiritually.  Sometimes I'm looking for more warmth in the mid-low frequencies, sometimes more grit in the mid-highs, sometimes a more light and delicate sound, etc.  Sometimes I might not make a change for days; sometimes I spend the entire practice session trying to find the right overall balance.  And usually I'm just looking to change some very small portion of the overall curve.
 
And then all that also changes with the aging of your strings; as the strings age, the tone changes, and you have to make adjustments.
 
I love and appreciate what the S2 offers me; personally, I have no desire to play any other instrument.  The tone that this instrument makes possible is, for me, a wonderful gift.
 
But then that's me.  I don't play in a band.  The music I'm playing is pretty much a departure from what most bass players are working on.  The minute changes I make trying to get the E at the 16th fret on the C string where I want it are not the type of tone issues that someone playing in a band with two loud rock guitar players face.
 
It's kinda like the difference between Europa and Signature electronics; Signature gives you a wider pallet than Europa, but Europa gives you more choices for quick and repeatable tone changes.
 
So I suppose it depends on what you want to do, and perhaps on what you might see yourself doing in the future.
 
I'll add that with practice you'll come to get a good feel for how much a small movement of the CVQ will change the tone; and at that point it becomes as repeatable as a switch.
 
And again, what the filter, Q switch, and/or CVQ do is very dependent on how your rig is setup.  If you flip the bridge Q switch from +6 to +9 with the bridge filter wide open but the treble on your amp is rolled back, then the switch isn't going to do much because that additional bump at 6K isn't getting past your amp's circuit.
 
Well, those are my random thoughts at the moment.  I hope you find something useful in there.

wayne

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 214
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2013, 11:29:12 AM »
I have a few years under my belt with both flavors and I've had the hood up on both of them.  I say with certainty that, for practical purposes, there is absolutely no difference in the sound of the electronics - other than the effects achieved by the CVQ.
 
The difference in sound/tone/quality is going to come from the wood.
 
I say for practical purposes because I know that there can be minor variations in all the components in the wiring and on the card due to manufacturing QC that can impact tone because everything impacts tone, but the circuit itself is the same.
 
I will now gladly be corrected by those with much deeper understanding of these magical things.....
 
C-Ya.................wayne
20th Anniversary 008
The Dark and The Light
The Unicorn
82 1228

tubeperson

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 538
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2013, 11:31:15 AM »
Not only the electronics. but different woods all contribute to the sound. It is possible as jazzyvee stated you may prefer a given Series I bass over a Series II or another wood combination, and impact the effect of the electronics in some fashion. Even the same type of wood may differ if they come from different logs etc.  The way I look at it is I get more dial in options with Series II, but never enough time to explore all those options. That being said, I love them all, even if I can't find all they can deliver.  I have both types of basses.   The key is to spend a lot of time dialing in and trying different settings.  It is very time consuming but well worth it.  It is after all going to be your sound.
 
Keep in mind, I hear plenty of signature and anniversary equipped basses that sound awesome as well.

David Houck

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15597
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2013, 11:34:20 AM »
Wayne; one of the biggest differences can come from the magical stardust that Ron sprinkles on the Series electronics right before he closes up the control cavity.

stout71

  • club
  • Advanced Member
  • *
  • Posts: 301
    • My Facebook Page
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2013, 11:38:04 AM »
Thanks, lads.  This is enough to give me direction.  Although I play with amps and cabs, I also have a completely direct setup with an Avalon U5 preamp.  But, I do a lot more live playing than studio (I would prefer to record more, but I have a 2 & 3 year-old = no time), so I think a Series I would suit me better.  I didn't mean to discount the neck and body wood makeup.  I've got maple galore on my MK5 and it sounds as bright as you might expect.  But that's what low-pass filters and q-switches are for.  
 
On to the next topic.  Stay tuned.

tubeperson

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 538
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2013, 11:40:04 AM »
And hopefully Ron has sprinkle that stardust on all of our basses (and guitars).
 
BTW Dave, your ears can perceive sound differently as well at different times.  Too much caffeine, not enough sleep etc, room dynamics all play a part.  Most people do not take enough care of their hearing or their ears.  Cleaning the wax out is important.

David Houck

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15597
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2013, 12:06:29 PM »
Absolutely Steve; thanks for adding that point.

pauldo

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4901
  • What chaos . . . ?
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2013, 12:33:38 PM »
I used to know an incredible saxaphone player who demanded large quantities of coffee prior to jamming with us because it enhanced his hearing.  
 
I regress; yet still want to throw a wrench into the soup. I played an SC at BagEnd way back at the Chicago gathering and absolutely loved (and was amazed) at how responsive the electronics package was to fingering dynamics.
 
So what are the fundamental differences between SI; SII; Signature and Anniversary electronics?
 
 
 
 
 
p.s. - there is stardust in my Distillate!  :-D

jazzyvee

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8707
  • Bass, Guitar, Preamps.
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2013, 01:53:17 PM »
So what are the fundamental differences between SI; SII; Signature and Anniversary electronics?  
 
Price... :-)
 
Sorry I couldn't resist that one. :-)
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

keith_h

  • club
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3490
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2013, 02:35:01 PM »
The Series 2 uses variable Q instead of switches. If I recall correctly it also comes standard with a master volume.  
 
The Series 1, Signature and Anniversary all use fixed positions on the Q-switch. Three position on the Series 1 (0, 6db, 9db standard) and the Signature/Anniversary have two position switches (0 and 8db standard). You can request different boost values and number of positions for any of them. As an example Adriaan has his set for a 3 db and 6db boost if I recall correctly.  
 
The Series 1 and 2 use single coil pickups and have the associated hum canceling circuitry. The Signature/Anniversary use hum cancelling pickups.  
This where I think the biggest difference in their sound comes into play. To me the single coil pickups in the Series has a more open sound to it.  
 
The Series 1/2 and Anniversary use a volume/volume/filter/filter arrangement and support mono/stereo output. The Signature uses a volume/pan/filter/filter arrangement and I believe is mono only.  
 
As the electronics go the Anniversary are about as close as you will get to Series 1/2 electronics.  
 
Keith

bonesrad

  • club
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 117
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2013, 04:06:10 PM »
I've owned both over the years and I think (albeit I'm not the most sophisticated musician)they are pretty similar animals.  No question the CVQ's and master volume control on the Series II give you more flexibility.  However, personally I like the more simplistic controls on the Series I.
 
Just my $0.02.
 
Bones

adriaan

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4318
Series I vs. Series II Electronics
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2013, 04:58:00 PM »
Someone mentioned my name? Indeed I have a three-position Q switch, just the one to go with the single filter on my Spoiler. To be brutally honest, I leave the filter wide open all the time as my ears don't care much for the removal of the upper part of the frequency spectrum. The standard 8 dB boost didn't do it for me either - too harsh, really. However the 3 dB boost adds a very subtle shimmer, and the 6 dB boost is a noticeable step up from there but still without the harshness of 8 dB. Keep on mind that it's a bass with a koa top, and as much as it is a lovely piece of wood with a warm tone, it's not the brightest of tones to be expected from an Alembic. I see a walnut topped bass with Signature or Anniversary in my future, as I'm pretty sure it will allow me to use the filters without losing the full spectrum - and perhaps rotary Q switches with 3 dB increments - in 6 clicks from 0 to 15 - pretty sure that is as fine-grained as one really needs.