What do you think of my fretless idear?

[bassjigga]

Ok I've been mullin over the thousands of combinations and possiblities known to Alembic in my head. Alembic's countless possiblities make this process really hard. Add to that the pressure of the price increase!  
 
Anyway here's what I've come up with and I'm curious to hear what the seasoned custom veterans think. It's going to be a fretless 5 string, tuned EADGC.
 
Model: Orion - I figure the set neck will be suitable for that nice throaty growl so desirable for fretless basses.
 
Neck: Maple with 1 ebony lam in the center and 2 purpleheart lams for the other two. The ebony should bring some of that fundamental sustain (I'm hoping it still has the same effect on the set neck), and the purpleheart accents will keep cost and weight down, as well as add some brilliance to the sound. I thought about 1 ebony and 2 vermillion lams when I was considering a neck-through, thinking the vermillion would bring some warmth. But the set neck should take care of that. What do you think?
 
Body: Mahogany with Macassar Ebony top (that I'm providing - I was lucky to score some killer stuff) with purpleheart accent in between framed by maple pinstripes on either side. Mahogany is great for true even tone, and I like the strong lows and definitive highs of the real dense woods like ebony.
 
Electronics: Europa. I had planned on this package regardless of which model I went for. The only change here will be a 3 position Q. I'd like to have a more subtle option than the std. 0/8db. Something like 0/4/8 or maybe even 0/3/6.
 
I'll also be adding the sustain block. Those are the vitals. There are a few other options but they are costmetic (plating, etc). What do you guys think? My main concerns are neck construction (set vs. through) and neck composition (laminates). Any advice would be great! Thanks in advance.
 
Dave

[bob]

The easy parts first...
 
- fretless: excellent choice :-)
- sustain block: yes
- Europa electronics are great. Since you used the word subtle, I would strongly recommend the 0/3/6 option (if it were me, I'd even consider 0/2/4, but then I'm a really subtle kind of guy).
- body sounds (and should look) great.
 
After that, I think maybe the key question is whether you are certain you will always keep it as EADGC. If so, then the rest of your choices would probably be fine, but if you have even the slightest inkling you might someday switch it down a string, then I would nix the set neck.
 
With the right strings, setup, technique, etc, you won't have any trouble getting plenty of growl out of a neck-through. Set necks can certainly be great, but in some ways, it's a little like having a permanent, built-in filter.
 
If you're sure that's what you want, that's fine, but to me, fretless does not scream for a set neck, in fact just the opposite. Looking at the rest of your choices, favoring sustain and great tone quality, the set neck just doesn't seem to fit.
 
But that's just me, and I don't understand enough about what you play or how you want to sound.
-Bob

[bassjigga]

Bob,
 
Thanks for your input. Interesting point you make about the set neck acting as a permanent filter. I hadn't thought of it that way but I can see what you mean.  
 
So, if I keep basically the same spec but make it a Europa 5, what do you think of the neck lams? I read somewhere on here that vermillion is something like mahogany but maybe a little brighter. That might be a nice wood to put into the neck for some warmth. They're actually building a fretless Rogue with a mahogany/vermillion/ebony neck. I do want to keep the maple in there though cause I like the brightness.  
 
Yeah I'm thinking 0/3/6 will be a good Q setup for me. I don't tend to EQ heavily. In fact on my amp I rarely boost or cut any more than the 3-5 range. If I have to do more than that it probably means I don't like the natural sound of the bass.
 
Yes it will always be EADGC or some altered tuning variation, but based on those string gauges. I play mainly rock and jazz type stuff. Some day I want to have a go at solo bass, but I'm not quite there yet.
 
Dave

[bob]

I don't think that anyone has ever felt it was a mistake to add 1 ebony and 2 purplehearts to a maple neck (and in your case, I don't think I would go for more than one ebony). I agree it would be wise to keep some maple in there, for both brightness and clarity, either of which you can tone done when you want to.
 
As for throwing some mahogany and/or vermillion into the mix, I can't really offer an opinion, but I'm sure others will.
 
Good luck.
-Bob

[keith_h]

Dave,
I can't speak to the neck laminates effect on a set neck but I suspect someone at Alembic can give you reliable information in this area.  
 
To go the opposite way from Bob. With my fretless I went with a set neck and ash body on purpose. I was looking for the strong mid-range growl that is inherent in this combination. I think my expectations were met very well. I did plan on a bridge block but it somehow got lost in my final features list. I don't know if this would have changed the tone or just enhanced the sustain. If I had to do things over I would probably add it in.  
 
I think your choice of electronics is great. I really like the Europa electronics especially from a live performance perspective. They are versatile  yet straight forward as to functions and repeatable settings. 3-way Q switches are something I would like to add to my basses.    
 
Good Luck.  
 
Keith

[alembic_doctor]

I don't know about the combination of woods.  But for me personally, I find that a Pao Ferro (did I spell that right) fingerboard is just the most awesome thing for mid range growl. (slide trombone)Maybe Mica or Valentino could weigh in on the subject.  I had them turn my Essence into a fretlesss a few years ago.  Mahogany Body, Maple Top, Pao Ferro Fingerboard.  Now, One wierd thing did happen.  The tone that I used to have to go to the bridge PU for is now coming out of the neck PU.  Go Figure. Mica told me that it was the combination of the woods.  Going from the Ebony to the PF.

[bassjigga]

Just got off the phone with Susan and she did say she really likes vermillion in the neck for a fretless. So it will be a variation of the Valentino neck. Maple with center ebony lam and two vermillion lams. I'm having her do a quote as a Europa. I think the neck-through will be the way to go for me. I tend to like the open sound it produces and it's probably easier to dial in some growl with the electronics than it would be to dial it out if I wanted to on the set neck.  
 
Keep the feedback comin! Thanks guys.
 
Dave

[bob]

My guess is that Susan offered a little more detail about why she really likes vermillion for a fretless - can you elaborate for us?

[bassjigga]

She said the vermillion would be warmer sounding than purpleheart. They are an even exchange for purpleheart btw. They're also building a neck similar on the Jarrah burl Rogue in the wood bank. That one has mahogany. Mine will have maple for the brightness.

[the_8_string_king]

Hey bassjigga!!!
 
So you're thinking about getting your order in before the price increase, huh?  Sounds like a good idea!
 
I hope you go for it!!! If you do, we might become bass brothers!  I just got my order in December 1st -and I've also spec'ed vermillion in my neck!  If you get your order in the pipeline soon, next to mine, they might well stone two birds with one joint and do our two relatively unusual necks together at the same time!!!  If you order soon, we'll probably be having our masterpieces hitting the FTC threads about the same time!!!
 
It also seems like our basses will be very similar, because not only will we have the commonality of ebony, vermillion, and maple in our necks, but also of Europa electronics with a 3-position Q.
 
Since my bass' Q function goes 0/4/8/12, I can tell you that you should be very happy with a 0/4/8 setup.  As even my lowest Q setting is noticeable, I'm sure that 0/3/6 would also be adequate for you, while predictably being more subtle.
 
I also agree you'd be much better off with a neck-thru.  While I respect the Alembic set-necks, and would never knock anyone for having one, the neck-thrus are clearly superior -IMO.  If you're gonna get an Alembic, you should pay the difference and get a neck-thru.
 
If you run a quote with a 5-string fretless Essence with Europa electronics, and factor in the additional cost of 1 ebony laminate and 2 purpleheart/vermillion laminates, and then subtract 25% -the maximum dealer discount- it's actually not too bad!
 
I'm crossing my fingers that the monthly special will be 5 strings for the price of 4, or something else you can use!
 
Yeah, that Rogue is really something!!!  The vermillion in the neck, and the neck woods of Scott's Quilted Coco Bolo Custom -in the FTC thread- pushed me over the edge and into having my unique 5-wood, 11-laminate neck.  The vermillion looks awesome.
 
See, there's gonna be a really cool pattern in my neck.  Between the 2 outer mahogany laminates of the neck, there will be 3 sections of 3 laminates... in the middle, an ebony laminate sandwiched within vermillion; and to either side, a maple laminate sandwiched within purpleheart.  It should look AND sound awesome.
 
I hope you go for it, and if so, I'll look forward to watching it's progress.
 
Have you considered scale length?  If you're certain about the EADGC, and that you'll not ever switch it to BEADG, you should consider a medium or even short scale... they're famous for it, and it would certainly be easier to play.
 
Are you going for totally fretless, or ghost frets or sidelines?
 
Go for it, bassjigga!

[bassjigga]

8 string king,
 
I'm tryin... it's going to be pretty expensive. Granted probably not as much as yours, but there are a few more features than I listed such as bookmatch to center, wood truss rod cover, chrome plating. Those all add a lot too. I only listed the specs that influence the sound since that's what I needed the feedback on.  
 
Yeah I think the Q will certainly either be 0/3/6 or 0/4/8. Since it's one of the last things that go in I have a little time to decide that. I also want to have one installed in my Essence so if I get that in soon I can experiment and make a little more educated decision.  
 
My only concern on the scale is that all my other basses are 34 and I don't know if I want to transition between different lengths - especially with a fretless. If it were fretted it wouldn't be as big of a deal. The board will be blank, and I've asked Susan for sort of a custom sidelines/dots thing on the side. I want to have the dots in the right spot (on the note as if it were totally unlined) cause I know having dots off position will mess up my head. Then in between the dots I want to do the sidelines. So it'd be like sidelines, except everywhere there is a dot, the dot would take the place of the line. I haven't heard back on this one yet but I don't think it should be too hard to do.  
 
Yeah I see your neck has just about everything! Should be cool. Just a thought from the aesthetic point of view... did you consider separating the mahogany/purpleheart and purpleheart/vermillion with a maple pinstripe? Might be a nice touch since those woods are close in color.  
 
Dave

[bassjigga]

It's gettin dangerously close...
 
Here's where it's at:
Europa 5 (EADGC)
34
1 ebony neck lam (center) and 2 vermillion neck lams
Fretless ebony board with side dots at the normal 3/5/7/9/12 with sidelines in between.
Silver side dots
Orion 3 + 2 head
 
Macassar ebony top
Bookmatch to center
 
Silver logo
Wood truss rod cover
Chrome plated hardware
3 position Q - 0/3/6.
 
dave

[bob]

String spacing?

[the_8_string_king]

Hi bassjigga!  Thanks for your idea/suggestion about the maple pinstripe laminates -but it's not what I have in mind.
 
As far as your bass goes, I'm glad to hear you're close to deciding.
 
What monthly special would you be locked into, last months, or this months?  I ask because I see you've spec'd a silver logo -and this months special is the inlaid logo & 1/2 off on side LEDs.  I assume you'd want to take advantage of this (at least, the inlaid logo).
 
Also -just out of curiousity- what's the point of the silver side dots instead of the aluminum?  It's a lot more money... and the dot's on my non-LED Alembic were so small that I probably couldn't tell the difference...
 
Nervous?  I know I was (and still am -since it'll take me some time to pay off)!

[bassjigga]

Comfort/wide spacing.
 
I thought the silver dots might be a little easier to see. I also asked about making them slightly larger cause you're right - they are very small on my essence. I haven't heard back on that though. I'll be using free plating special.
 
Definitely nervous... a lot of money.