Author Topic: Maple (Read 476 times)

basstard · « **on:** December 21, 2003, 03:58:37 AM »

I play in a band with relatively heavy guitar and lots of modern dirty keyboard sounds. The music's not metal (or the so-called nu-metal... yuk!), but it does get pretty heavy sometimes. I heard that maple basses sound good in that kind of music - they cut through better. I know how maple-bodied Pedulla and Spector basses sound like, and I like the soud (Chris Wolstenholme, the bassist of Muse - my currently favourite band - plays maple-bodied Pedulla Rapture bassas), but the only Alembic I've ever held in my hands - a sweet Spoiler - had a standard mahogany body (and it sounded fantastic). I want the sound of my bass to be clear, tight and strong and to cut through nicely, but I don't want to lose too much of the deep bottom and round mids. Therefore I have a question to all of you who own (or have ever played) a maple-bodied Alembic: how does it sound (apart from the obvious fact that every Alembic sounds heavenly (-;) and what top would be the best to combine crystal-clear highs and 'heaviness' of maple with nice bottom-end and midrange? And, finally, how would the combination of maple body and cocobolo top sound (I'm dreaming of an Alembic with a sweet cocobolo top)?

David Houck · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2003, 09:02:32 AM »

Jarek; I'm afraid I won't be much help (and Mica and others in this group know much much more about the subject of woods than I) but, I have an all Maple Essence 4 string; Maple neck, Maple body, Maple top; so I thought I would at least respond. I used to think that this was an aggressive bass. I also have an Essence 6 string which is no where near as aggressive, much more laid back and warm. The 6 has a Maple neck, Mahogany body and Walnut top. (Although I haven't seen any discussion on the subject, I tend to think that the much more massive neck on a wide taper 6 string probably contributes to it's sound.) So, between these two basses I figured the all Maple configuration was contributing to a less warm, more agressive tone. Then, I recently picked up a Spoiler 4 string and my opinion of the all Maple config changed. The Spoiler has an all Maple neck, Mahogany body and Koa top. I was surprised to find it much more aggressive than the Essence 4 with a more complex tone. However, I feel that I am only beginning to get used to the differences between the two; and I have not done a side by side recorded comparison. You stated that you had heard that Maple basses cut through better. That's what I thought previously, but now I can no longer say that; the Koa on Mahogany seems to cut through better. Of course there may be differences between the circuits of an 84 Spoiler and a 90 Essence that account for some portion of the difference in tone. And the way I have my F-1X and SF-2 setup may be influencing the perceived difference between the basses. So I'm afraid I'm not much help; I now seem to know less about what an all Maple bass should sound like than I thought I did. If Mica sees your post, I'm sure she will be a lot more help than I.

rockandroller · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2003, 10:12:19 AM »

To me the quintessential aggressive bass is the all-maple (with rosewood board) neck-through Rickenbacker 4000 series, especially as used by Motorhead, or the Stranglers...

Also some of the all-maple 70s Gibsons were pretty IN YOUR FACE too (Rippers, Grabbers, G-3s... come to mind)

dean_m · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2003, 10:19:40 AM »

Jarek,

Maybe I can be of some help here. My 5 string Elan, which has been my main bass for about 12 years, has a bubinga top with a maple body, maple neck with purpleheart neck laminates. There is no sustain block so I'm getting more of the wood in my sound.
It is a very loud bass to say the least. And yes I would have to agree with Dave in his description of sounding aggressive. At times it can be extemely bright sounding but never overbearing. The brightness comes from the wood too, not the electronics like some other manufacturers electronics. Also, I would think the bubinga top might mellow it out a bit and give it more midrange. Now also keep in mind, for the last 11 or so years, I've only played through Ampeg tube heads which will of course warm the sound up. That combined with all that maple really made a nice balance. Now that I'm using more solid state stuff (carrying a 100lb SVT 3-4 nights a week isn't good for your back)I've noticed that I need to back off on the highs and high mids a bit and boost the lows. In fact I'm still debating on putting a bass control on the bass (sorry Mica, I still have reservations about shipping my baby cross country). I've never lacked a huge bottom end though. Anything that I've needed in terms of sound though, I've been able to get. I would have to say the only downside of a maple bass is that it is heavy. I do believe that the weight does contribute to the sound though so I'll live with it.

On a side note, I've used this bass on countless recordings and demos. I've used it on everything from Country gigs to Jazz gigs. In fact I'm playing a 3 piece jazz hit tonight and it's coming with me. It's almost always the first bass in the gig bag. I'd be happy to send you some MP3's of different stuff that I've done with this bass.
I've also got a 5 string fretless Orion with the same electronics as the Elan. The Orion has a set neck with a mahogany body and a bubinga top. I'm not sure if it's the set neck or the mahogany body that gives the bass a more woody tone. It is different from the Elan though in terms of natural sound even being fretless aside.

I hope this help you in your decision. Remember this though, you can't go wrong with any Alembic. Sort of like a bad day of fishing is better than any good day of work.

Peace,
Dino

adriaan · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2003, 11:45:48 AM »

Dino,
Having had the experience of de-fretting an Epic after about 8 years of use, I can vouch that the voice of the instrument is pretty much the same before or after: it's more a case of dynamics that have mellowed. Definitely c'est la musique qui fait le ton, not the opposite.

mica · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2003, 06:41:06 PM »

Maple is naturally bright and aggressive and emphasizes the highs easily. It's what we suggest as a body wood for playing situations like you describe, Jarek.

To mellow it out, you can dial the filter to exclude the extreme highs even on a solid maple bass. If you want the bass to have inherently more bottoms, then cap it with coco bolo. I'd steer clear of walnut in this case, only because the brightness of the maple with the barky immediacy of the walnut may be too much to bear.

Generally I have a feeling that maple bodies are slightly less versatile than mahogany ones and you never lose the maple edge to the sound, even when you turn the filter down.

Dave - I'm surprised by your koa observations! Most people I speak with can really hear the warming of koa, it's a fairly open grained wood. Is your mahog especially dark/dense? There's also a 32/34 scale difference with the Spoiler/Essence comparison.

David Houck · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2003, 09:36:17 PM »

Mica; I have three Alembics with Mahogany bodies and yes the Spoiler is the darkest. Does the difference in scale length significantly effect the tone? Right now my strings are off as the neck has just been oiled; but after it's restrung I'll go listen to it some more.

rogertvr · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2003, 10:27:14 AM »

To quote Rockandroller - To me the quintessential aggressive bass is the all-maple (with rosewood board) neck-through Rickenbacker 4000 series, especially as used by Motorhead, or the Stranglers...

I've played a 4001 for the last 22 years. I've not found anything that comes anywhere near close for my style of playing or the sound I want from a bass - that is fast and bright! I sold my JayDee Supernatural earlier this year because I never played it. In 23 years of playing the only other bass apart from my 4001 that I have been blown away by was an Alembic Series I that I played in a local music shop (now witness the Dragon's Wing project). It's the only Alembic I've ever played but it had as massive an effect on me as the first time I played my 4001.

My 4001 sings like a bird - end of story!

bracheen · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2003, 10:50:10 AM »

Mica,
Bright, mellow, warm, and dark I understand. But barky immediacy? If you could explain that one please?
Also do how different in sound are variations of the same wood. For instance, bird's eye maple vs flame maple vs quilted maple, etc.

Sam

adriaan · « **Reply #9 on:** December 25, 2003, 01:59:32 AM »

Barky - that's a good one. Are we talking bark as on a tree or as what a dog sounds like?

Another difference could be that the Essence probably has an accent laminate.

Having just bought a second koa topped Alembic, which is a Spoiler, I must say it is more lively (call it immediate) than what I remember from when my Epic was still fretted. Plus I think the Epic classifies as flame koa, whereas the Spoiler has 'watermark' koa - as Mica describes it: looks as if water has evaporated off the surface. It's a similar effect to those bird's eyes in maple.

Mica also said koa produces a 'thumpy' sound, and that's probably true for the Epic, but not so for the Spoiler - at least not with the current set of Vinci .040 strings (I'm getting off-pitch flageolets with those). Then again the Epic has a maple accent laminate, the Spoiler has none. This is really comparing apples and oranges - you need two identical basses with just a different top to get a good idea.

The major difference between these two is of course that the Spoiler is neck-through, so that's a lot of additional maple where the Epic has an all mahogany back. Not sure what 32 vs. 34 contributes to that.

bigbadbill · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2003, 06:38:20 AM »

Roger
I'm completely with you on the 4001 thing. I've also played Ricks consistently over my(also)23 years of playing, and for Rock at least,in my opinion nothing comes close(The Alembic TO will be used for all the other stuff...)

bigredbass · « **Reply #11 on:** December 27, 2003, 06:53:41 PM »

I've always felt that this 'tone-tuning-by wood' is an iffy process at best. I'm sure Mica can tell you about basses that didn't sound like the build record suggested they SHOULD have sounded . . because wood is just different from piece to piece.

Yes, you can 'hear' wood in extreme cases: Identical basses in totally different builds will sound different; for instance take an all maple Spector and duplicate it in bubinga, or wenge, and you'll definitely hear it. The darker heavier woods are tighter and more focused, like a tuba playing staccato. The ashes, maples, alders bloom in the harmonics with less fundamental than the dark woods. This is the 'bark' that Mica speaks of. Rickenbacker found this out the hard way: Not many of you 4001/03 guys have stepped up to buy the (walnut) Cheyennes, because they just DON'T sound like
Ricks. And walnut (along with cherry) is the first step off into the dark woods like wenge, bubinga, etc.

But mix these woods in construction, especially three different woods in the neck thru (rock maple, purpleheart, and the ebony fingerboard) plus the body wings and this really gets to be
a gumbo. You'll see Mica speak of the neck woods affecting the sound easily (ebony laminates), and CERTAIN tops (cocobolo, usually) accenting the sound, but after that, who knows ?

With ALEMBIC pickups, BELIEVE me, you can cut through ANYTHING. After that, decide on your woods by weight (NO bass will please you if you get worn out wearing it) and what pleases your eye. I prefer a realtively simple 'recipe':

My long scale Spoiler is the deluxe laminate (three purpleheart plies), ebony fingerboard, mahogany wings, and a quilt maple top. The weight (9#) is fine, the mahogany warms the maple, and I get a very even tone without the weight of the more exotic woods. And the tone is very useable in ANY situation, whether I want to blend with acoustics and songwriters, or own the low end in harder situations.

J o e y

basstard · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2003, 08:32:01 AM »

Thanks for your replies! I have one more question: many of you mentioned (in various topics) that neck woods have major impact on the final sound. What is the tonal difference between all-maple neck and maple/purpleheart neck (especially in case of a maple-bodied neck-thru bass)?

(Message edited by basstard on December 28, 2003)

David Houck · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2003, 08:47:14 AM »

Jarek; I believe Purpleheart adds sustain and fundamental. It's also important to keep in mind that on a neck through Alembic the neck woods contribute significantly more to the overall sound that on a set neck Alembic. On the top of the line Alembics, the Series basses and the Signature Deluxe, Maple and Purpleheart are the standard combination.