Thinking about a bass...

[bsee]

After wasting four hours of Val and Mica's time last week with a visit to their wonderful shop, I now have to start detailing my new bass.
 
I don't know what base model to start with, but I suppose that will depend on the monthly special.  I am also in less of a hurry than most, so I am willing to wait for the most advantageous special before I order.  I fear the result is that I will be asking Val/Mica to do a lot of conjecture work with me, since much of what I would want is not to be found on the website.
 
 
Things I know I want:
 
-32 scale
-Fretted
-five strings, B-E-A-D-G
-String spacing equivalent to the 30th anniversary SC bass
-A bass that hangs naturally between 1:30 and 2:00
-two purpleheart and one ebony stringer in the neck
-bridge block
-bird tailpiece
-crown or tapered crown headstock
-Standard clear finish
 
 
Things I'd like, but don't know if I want to pay for:
 
 -Gold hardware
 -Amber side LEDs
 -Abalone ovals, or a more interesting material if there is one
 -A custom bumblebee inlay somewhere, probably the upper horn.  About 1 long and requiring relatively simple cuts (at least, no elaborate details) of black and yellow materials, probably in a lighter oval to bring it forward.
 -a single thick quilty/flamed laminate between the body and top.
 -flamey/quilted maple neck wood.
 
 
Things I am not sure about:
 
1. Body shape.  Alternatives are:
  -Simplified Val body with no Omega cut and a single pistol grip
  -New Balance K body with a 'regular' bottom
  -New Balance K body with three extra points like Val's new bass and a 'regular' bottom
  -Add the baby's bottom cut to any of the above shapes (follow the lines of the bird tailpiece)
 
2. Electronics package:
  -Europa style
  -East Meets West style
  -Signature style
  -Anniversary style, but I don't care about stereo.
  -Generally, I prefer the side jack.
 
3. Pickups:
  -two fatboys
  -fatboy at bridge, regular at neck
 
4. Top wood:
  -Cocobolo
  -Superb Walnut
  -Something else with a similar dark/natural wood with interesting figure and contrast.
  -Macassar Ebony (which is gorgeous, but I definitely don't want to pay for it!)
 
5. Body wood:
  -Mahogany most likely
  -Maybe Vermillion, if there's a compelling reason.
 
 
Things I don't care about at all:
 
 -shape/material of the logo
 -back laminate
 -back plate materials, etc.
 
 
Much of the above is not priced on the website.  Any information about respective costs would be greatly appreciated.  Also, any thoughts on the best combination of base instrument and monthly special to get this done at the lowest cost?  I am thinking about a King Standard or Deluxe with a 20% of base price toward options as the most likely candidate, though it seems silly that the name associated with the base model would affect the price.
 
Thanks-
Bob

[bassman10096]

Hi Bob:
 
Oh to be doing it all again...
 
When I was deciding how to build my bass, I had a document that looks a lot like what you just posted - the choices I considered broken down into the exact categories as you used. It's a good way to manage the details while you reduce a lot of preferences into specs for your order.  
 
I Emailed you a chart I compiled and used myself to evaluate the potential values, respectively  of various Monthly Specials that have recurred over time (All the info is available under Previous Monthly Specials).  I'm not sure whether this was helpful or not, but it did serve as food for thought.  
 
It does seem a little ironic that the base model winds up being so important to your deliberations.  But it is.  For instance, I'm sure you noticed that the Signature Deluxe comes with Coco Bolo at no extra charge - That's a big hit in your favor (if it's what you want).  Plus you get a back lam in the process (which doesn't sound high on your list right now).  You may wind up with a few tradeoffs. Mica, Susan and Val were very helpful to me in figuring out how the options woulc mix and match to maximize what I could put into my bass (Thanks, again guys!!).  Also, there are a number of options and combinations too complicated to price in the Quote Generator, so you'll need to discuss with the Alembicians.
 
It's great hearing what you are thinking about.  Sounds like it will be a very cool bass. I'm sure you'll have lots of fun with all the decisions (and then the WAITING!!!).
 
Good luck and keep us posted (I, for one, am perfectly satisfied living vicariously till I can afford to build another Alembic!).
 
Bill

[bracheen]

Sounds like another masterpiece in the making.  Ordering a custom has got to be a rush.  
One day...
 
I've never played a 32.  I'll have to try that sometime soon.  There is a reason it's so popular.
 
Sam

[goatfoot]

Bob,
 
Have you chosen the dealer you want to work with yet?  The right dealer can make or break your custom dreams.  Some dealers are great at figuring out the right base model/monthly special to get the most bang-for-the-buck for the features you want.  I worked with Greg at B-&-B in Delaware and he was an expert at that.
 
Sweet Alembic-dreams,
Kevin

[the_mule]

-String spacing equivalent to the 30th anniversary SC bass  
 
Bob, sorry for being shamelessly curious and very off-topic at the same time, but have you really seen this? Can you tell us more, or are your lips sealed until this undoubtedly fabulous instrument is officially presented to mr. Clarke and the rest of the world?
 
Wilfred

[bsee]

Kevin-
 
My expectation is that the dealer will just take a small profit for handling the money, but will never see the bass or really communicate about the specs.  My dealer will be the guy who takes the smallest piece.  It's free money to the dealer, so hopefully there's someone out there who will be happy to make a couple hundred dollars for no risk, no inventory cost, and almost no work.  
 
 
Bill-
 
Haven't seen the chart yet, but it sounds interesting.  Since a few of the options I am interested in aren't on the configurator, I will need to hear about cost from Alembic directly to figure this out.  There are no downgrade credits anywhere.  Also, the upcharges for some options aren't logical for all models, I think to discourage starting from the cheapest base and loading it up.  If I could start with a King Deluxe and get a credit for deleting the back laminate, that would probably be the best way to go, but we'll see.
 
 
Sam-
 
A 32 scale is great for shorter/smaller handed players.  In a four string, it is fabulous.  In a five, I think it needs the heavier neck woods to make up for the shorter strings, but then still sounds and plays great.  The narrower string spacing of the older five strings can also make it so much easier to play that you find yourself becoming faster and cleaner.
 
 
Thanks for the interest and comments!
-Bob

[bsee]

Sorry, Wilfred, but I can't say much about it.  The bass is at the factory waiting for the future owner to come and get it, so those who make a pilgrimmage do get to see it.  On my honor, though, I promised not to detail what I saw.  The string spacing is different from any other Alembic I have seen or touched, though, and it seems absolutely perfect for me.  If I were interested in a four string, I would have them making a poor man's version of that bass for me right now.  Well, I'd still wait for the right monthly special, but that would be the layout!
 
-Bob

[valvil]

Hello Wilfred,
 
Stanley's bass is only 1.4 inches at the nut, so the strings are a lot closer together.
 
Hello Bob,
 
that's a LOT of ideas you're throwing around.
One thing you did not specify was a neck-though or a set neck. For now I'll proceed assuming a neck-through instrument.  
 
I've decided to start from a Mk signature standard, since that's got a lot of the things you want at no extra charge.
 
A 5 string Mk standard starts at 5400$
a neck with 2 purpleheart and one ebony lam is 1125$
Bridge block, bird tailpiece, signature electronics and balance K body (smooth bottom or Point) are no extra charge on a MK standard.
Abalone ovals are an extra 200$. Superb flame walnut is 800$, Macassar Ebony is 1200$ and Coco Bolo is now 1000$. We charge 100$ for custom neck dimensions.
All this (plus a hardshell case at 280$) brings the total to 7905$ for a Superb Flame walnut bass , 8105$ for a Coco Bolo one and 8305 $ for a Macassar Ebony one.
Amber side Leds are an extra 870$ and Gold plated hardware is currently 950$ ( for instruments with plastic backplates).
The pointy bits on my bass, as Mica likes to call them are pretty expensive, Susan hasn't even told me how much she's gonna charge me for them; Tony did tell me they were very hard work for him.
 
In regards to the price you can expect from a dealer: be aware that Alembics have much smaller margins than companies like Fender or Gibson.
A dealer is not going to be able to lower the price that much. An Alembic that lists at 8000$ will never sell for 4000$ because the dealer pays quite a bit more than that already. Also, while I understand that we all want the great deal, you have to see it from the dealer's point of view as well. If he starts selling Alembics at 200$ over cost, why bother with the line at all? If  the dealer gets the reputation for selling our stuff that cheap then everyone is gonna want that same discount and not even touch his stock instruments, which he has already paid for. So while it's true that he won't have to do much work, 200$ are not worth depreciating his Alembic line like that.  Part of the reason dealers stock our instruments is to generate custom orders as well, not just to sell the ones they order from us. Since I've worked in a music store as sales manager for 3 years before I landed at Alembic I can tell you that a dealer needs to make at the very least a 20-25% profit on an instrument. So, just to warn you, I am sure you'll find many of our dealers willing to give you good discounts, but I'd be very surprised if you found someone willing to do it for a few hundred dollars over cost.
 
In regards to the specials of the month, if you look up the previous specials you can get an idea of what will NOT come up in the next few months, since each special does not get repeated for 6 months at least.
 
Valentino

[bsee]

Val-
 
Thanks for the reply!
 
I think I understand the cost structure, so it will be finding the right dealer when it comes to price.  Ideally, I would set up an instrument that comes out around $7500, apply an advantageous monthly special, and then get my best price off of that.  I am hoping that I will be able to get a deal at 10-15% over cost under the circumstances, but I will have to wait until I have an approximate quote to find that out.  I will certainly have to make some trade-offs in terms of price for the options I might want in order to get there.  Some things will be left behind for cost reasons, or I will decide that I am willing to pay a bit more.  To start the process of paring things back or parting with additional cash, I need to know what each of the little tidbits is likely to cost.  I fear that I am an analytical buyer, in spite of the fact that this is art.  I will have to comtemplate all the issues and see what I can live with when I have the facts.  I suspect I will live with a severe compromise for the price I want to pay, or perfection for significantly more money.
 
Are there ever discounts applied when things are removed from an instrument or downgraded?  For example, signature electronics are +$300 on a Europa/Rogue, but you don't seem to get any of that back if you put Europa Electronics in a Signature bass.
 
My guess is that a King Deluxe setup the way I want with the exception of the body points will list around $9000 before monthly specials.  At $6800 base price, 20% applied to custom options would get me down by $1360.  That's starting to find my ballpark.  If there were any credits applied for downgrading electronics or dropping the back laminate, that would help too.  What would the upcharge be for converting one purpleheart lam to ebony on a deluxe?
 
A King Standard set up the same way seems to list about the same price with the same set of options and provides less benefit on a %-of-base-cost special.  Maybe I am doing something wrong.
 
And FYI, the custom configurator isn't representing an upcharge for custom fingerboard width.
 
Thanks!
-Bob

[kmh364]

It seems like you pretty much know what you want (trust me: it'll change by the time the thing is done, LOL!), now you just need to play the waiting game like I did. Make a deal with someone for a fixed discount off of MSRP, then wait until the 20%-off home-run special comes along like I did. I shopped for months to find the right dealer while waiting for the right special. Like myself, others have gotten great deals from Beaver Felton or Gard over at Bass Central or Steve Frank over @ Superbass.net. Ultimately Steve got my order: with his awesome discount plus the 20%-off special I got a KILLER deal. His one-on-one customer service (he's a one-man operation) has been awesome as well. Since Steve doesn't sell amps, Beaver got the nod for good pricing and good service when I bought my Eden rig. You can't go wrong with either. Just do what I did: send out requests for bids/proposals and then watch them scramble to one-up the other guy. Go with whoever offers you the best value, whether that means service, price or both. Whatever makes you comfortable. Good Luck!  
 
REMEMBER: The best price doesn't always mean the best deal! There was actually a guy that was lower, but I didn't like the way I was treated, so I went with Steve (the next lowest bidder). In the end, as a thank-you for the business, he matched that guy's price on his own. Just my $0.02 for some food for thought.

[bigredbass]

Bob
 
My two cents:
 
-32 scales make me nervous:  They're harder to re-sell, and your string choices narrow down quite a bit (NO, you just can't cut off 34 strings)
 
-five-string, B-G, string spacing to match, OK
 
-the 'hang' you want would certainly imply a Rogue shape
 
-three purplehearts will do, it's extra work for two and one ebony
 
-bridge blocks I can live without
 
-I love the bird tailpiece, the Crown or Fan headstocks are classic, and the paint/clear jobs they do (20 coats?) are unreal.
 
-I like gold hardware, but you might spring for gold keys to match the regular brass hardware:  Almost the same look, but less the expense of gold-plating everything.
 
-fingerboard inlays are up to you, though some match colored finishes terrifically.
 
-the bumblebee inlay, you're on your own.
 
-a flame laminate usually doesn't show on the edge, which is all you'd see
 
-I'd go with straight grain maple in the neck for strength and tameness
 
-I LOVE Val's shape; the 'K' is going to have to grow on me, as I'm old-school as far as their shapes.
 
-I like the Signature electronics:  I don't need the quick change switches, and Ditto about the Anniversary stereo.
 
-Use 2 FatBoys or 2 AXY's.  If you must mix them, put the FatBoy at the Bridge
 
-For the body, my choice is always a handsome maple over mahogany:  For me this is always the best all around combination.  Of your choices, Vermillion (in a piece suitably swirly and orangey) over a Mahogany core would give you the look of cocobolo at a LARGE savings, and I'm sure Mica could suggest a contrasting pin-stripe laminate between the two to set it off.  See Stanley's cover of BASS PLAYER from last winter, that Vermillion SC he's holding is just too fine . . . and use the back with the same wood as your top for a great finished look.
 
-Use the standard brass logo, brass back doors. Or have the matching wood back doors done.
 
Well, you got a lot for two cents!
 
J o e y

[bob]

Bob,
 
I've been meaning to say a few things here, though it's always too late at night... and so it is again, so I'll try to keep it short and simple.
 
Love your assessment: what you've gotta have, what might be neat if you had money to burn or caught a good special, what needs more thought. With all the options available - including many yet to be dreamed up - I think a thoughtful analysis like this is the only way to approach a custom, and strongly encourage others to do so.
 
You seem a little obsessed about price... shopping around is good, waiting for a great monthly special makes sense (thanks for the tip, Val), but instead of thinking about 10-15% over cost (which no one is going to tell you), the rule of thumb seems to be you can probably do 10-15% below list, by going through a dealer rather than direct to Alembic. Maybe some people do a little better than that, so best of luck, but don't get stuck on unrealistic expectations.
 
I think Joey has a nice set of tasteful and practical suggestions. Aside from a couple matters of personal style, my only comments are that I strongly recommend getting a bridge block, and I'd go with FatBoy bridge/AXY neck (I started with two FatBoys, and switched the neck to AXY).
 
Oh, and put aside a bottle on a shelf somewhere, where you can start stockpiling your patience. Right now a few hundred dollars here and there may seem more important, but that will change...
-Bob

[bsee]

JOEY-
 
Thanks for the thoughts.  On the shorter scale, that's my first interest in Alembic.  I have had some other great basses, but my small hands fly on shorter scale instruments.  I tend to be more sloppy and get cramps trying to play some of the stuff I do on longer scale instruments.
 
Bob-
 
You may be right on many of your points.  As far as cost, though, I have already discussed it with a couple dealers and have some experience in the industry.  I think I have a good handle on what the dealer cost will be relative to list, though I did underestimate how quickly the options would add up.  Also, I think that you could get a 10-15% discount off of list if you really wanted to pay that much, but many dealers are starting closer to 25% off list before you even talk to them.  Is price important?  Not really in the big picture, but I have a family history of hunting value.  It's impossible to shrug off, so I do it.  Unfortunately, as great as we know Alembic basses to be, they take a huge hit on value once they hit the used market.  They tend to hold whatever used value they end up with for a lot of years, maybe forever, but you definitely take a serious hit buying new.  It's worth it on a custom that you will keep forever.  It's especially true if you're looking for something different that affects playing feel, like neck width, that you can't find on the used market.  That same special feature also adds risk that maybe it won't turn out as you expected.  There's no way to play it first, and a miscalculation that doesn't play well for you is like throwing away half your money.
 
In any case, to start this off, everything is evaluated relative to cost and benefit.  After that phase, I will get to adding things for emotional reasons and probably ending up closer to $6K than to $4K.  Really, the money doesn't matter.  It's just the way I HAVE to do things.
 
The patience won't be a problem as I am pretty happy with the Persuader five that I have been playing.  I would rather wait for value than pay a bit more to rush.
 
Thanks!
-Bob
 
 
Questions still to be answered:
 
1. Cost to upgrade to a fatboy pickup.  I think I am sold on a fatboy at the bridge and regular at the neck, though I'd love the opportunity to hear the difference before committing.
2. Cost of the Val-style body points.  So far I have heard that it's time consuming and probably expensive, but no numbers.
3. Cost of replacing the center purpleheart neck laminate with ebony on a MK deluxe 5.
4. Are there any downgrade credits available for anything?  In particular:
 -deleting the back laminate on an MK deluxe
 -dropping to Europa electronics on a Signature bass.
 
That's all for now...
-Bob