Author Topic: Fretless Guitars (not basses) (Read 515 times)

jazzyvee · « **on:** June 03, 2004, 03:20:09 PM »

Have you ever made a fretless guitar?
Just curious if it's something you have ever been asked to make?

When I was 18 i had an idea to make one and after rejecting the idea that it would not work as told to my by a local guitar maker. I bought a book on making electric guitars and did everything apart from cut frets into the neck.

Unfortunately I was not that good on woodwork and had some problems with getting an even neck radius throughout the neck and it was unplayable. I eventually scrapped the body and kept the neck for prosperity.

A few years later I bought some strat type body parts from a closing down music shop and made the guitar from the parts and after a few years when I got the urge to try fretless i pulled the frets out of the neck and filled the slots. That was fairly successful but the sound was quite dull and not very appealing and this time the neck join really didn't work that well and moves a bit whilst playing. Also it didn't fit into the sound of the band I was working with at the time so I put that idea to bed for a while.

I have since bought one of the Vigier Sufretters with the Delta metal necks which are really nice to play especially now I have heavy gauge D'addario Chromes fitted. However I find myself wanting some more variety in tone and some brightness which only exists at full volume. Also would the Strat-o-blaster give me any additional tone variation or does it just prevent the brightness being lost when you adjust the volume?

Jazzy vee

s_wood · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2004, 02:22:18 PM »

F.Y.I.

Frank Zappa fooled around some on a fretless guitar, which was an Acoustic Black Widow. You can hear a couple of fretless solos on the album One Size Fits All In particular, give a listen to the solos on San Berdino and Can't Afford no Shoes.

By the way, the bass player on that album is my all time favorite, a guy named Tom Fowler. Of course, he used an Alembic. His comping under the solo on Inca Roads just kills me.

jagerphan84 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2004, 04:04:17 PM »

Steve - I listened to that album yesterday in my car... I had never realized that Frank was playing a fretless guitar, but in retrospect I can hear it clearly! And Tom Fowler is in my top 5 favorite bassists. 'Inca Roads' and 'Andy' are two of my personal favorites. I love the way the rhythmic line and melodic lines in the intro to 'Andy' complement each other so perfectly.

Adam

effclef · « **Reply #3 on:** June 07, 2004, 02:23:37 PM »

Jazzyvee - I have a CD I found at a flea market called FRETLESS GUITAR MASTERS. I think they have a website called fretlessguitar.com. Worth listening to. Definitely a distinctive sound! Some of the guys use glass fretboarded guitars.

For a simulation of fretless acoustic, try a middle-eastern disc containing an OUD. This is the Arabic fretless lute, in fact the predecessor of the lute. If you like the middle eastern semitones, it is a nice sound.

EffClef

almost_mingus · « **Reply #4 on:** June 07, 2004, 02:28:31 PM »

Check out a guitar player name Nguyen Le. Jazz guy who i've heard uses a fretless guitar. He does some pretty amazing stuff.

jazzyvee · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2004, 03:35:36 PM »

I have the Fretless Guitar Masters CD, i got it just recently and I have seen the OUD played on tv by a guy at a recording of the London Jazz festival.

To be honest the only person I was really taken with on the cd was Franck Vigroux.

I know it would take a while to get really comfortable and confident on a fretless instrument after playing a fretted instrument but I'm getting used to it although chords are quite tricky i findd.

son_of_magni · « **Reply #6 on:** June 09, 2004, 07:02:03 AM »

I was talking to a friend at work about Turkish instruments (he is from Turkey). He told me about the Oud and the Saz. I thought the Oud sounded like a cool instrument so I looked on ebay and sure enough there are some available. I talked to my friend about them and he said I will buy one for you in Istanbul. In a few weeks he went to visit his family in Turkey and brought me back a nice instrument.

It is a little difficult to play and needs to be tuned often, and tuning is a bit confusing with all those strings, trying to see which peg goes to which string. It's also hard to hold due to the odd shape.

But anyone interested in fretless guitar should check out the Oud, for a little bit of the old world sound.

And that reminds me, if I can be forgiven for going a little off topic. Sometimes it surprises me how much the sound of an instrument will influence the way I play when I improvise. I'll be playing and I'll stop and flip a Q switch off and start playing again and the different sound sets a new mood which I respond to with new ideas. This is one reason it's always good to have a few different instruments around. When I pick up the Oud I hear myself playing riffs I would never think of on the bass. Anyone else experience this?
SoM

effclef · « **Reply #7 on:** June 09, 2004, 09:38:59 AM »

SoM - great thoughts there. Funny you should mention the Saz because I have one of those. Lark in the Morning (in California) has a website with lots of exotic World instruments. The one I got is six stringed, three double courses, with a banjo style body and long, thin neck with nylon fishline tied on for frets (apparently in the old Turkish tradition for this instrument).

Like a lot of exotic instruments, this is more tourist quality. I got a book on Saz playing from LITM also, and it was of course in Turkish. I had someone semi-translate for me. But the biggest issue is the frets are not lined up the same way as the book. Luckily I have an Intellitouch clip-on tuner - I plan to move and remove some frets to make it match the book.

ANYWAY!!!

The point is, often these instruments are completely alien but as you say, can inspire you to play your normal instrument in ways you hadn't considered.

The baglama Saz and the Oud are made for the middle eastern microtones. Basically, from what I have heard, between every sharp/flat and the adjacent note, there is a quarter-tone.

Trip Wamsley's IT'S BETTER THIS WAY has a great microtonal song, I think it's track 2, and it may in fact be Michael Manring doing the playing, I am not sure. But if you have a fretless (Alembic) bass it would be an inspiration.

The oud is the ancestor of the lute and guitar and most other Western fretted instruments.

Good luck with it!

EffClef

the_mule · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2004, 12:14:02 PM »

Thanks you for the heads up! I've purchased 'One Size Fits All' yesterday. Brilliant album, there should be a reference topic about albums with mainly Alembic sounds. Well, maybe I'll just start one up myself!

michael_vick · « **Reply #9 on:** August 12, 2004, 09:25:52 PM »

Try http://www.unfretted.com for update to information on ALOT of Fretless Guitar players including BumbleFoot, FUZE & Yan Vagh.
VVV

bigredbass · « **Reply #10 on:** August 12, 2004, 10:51:00 PM »

I play with fretless guitars/guitar players all the time: pedal steels.

My brother-in-law is a great steel player and I was stunned to learn about these instruments: Two necks (different tunings) played like slide guitar with a bar, and the various pedals/knee levers only change one string at time and the interval change is different for each one! Famous non-country guitarists that dabbled/double with steel include Jerry Garcia and David Gilmour. See this month's GUITAR PLAYER and read about the terrifying Robert Randolph.

J o e y

bracheen · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2004, 03:00:44 AM »

I saw Robert Randolph and the Family Band open for Eric Clapton recently. WOW! The whole band was exceptional. I've not heard any of their recorded material but if you get the chance to see them live take it.

Sam

joram · « **Reply #12 on:** August 13, 2004, 06:29:35 AM »

I bought an oud (or 'ud) too when I was in Istanbul, just a week ago. Of course it's tourist quality, but I don't mind. It only cost me 80 million Turkish Liras (about 45 euro/55 dollar). Inspiring instrument, although it's hard to get out of your 'normal' western musical patterns.

michael_vick · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2004, 03:46:17 PM »

Yeah, nice stuff guys..........MV

son_of_magni · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2004, 04:50:02 PM »

joram, my oud cost me 300 million!

If you do some searches on the web for turkish tradishional music (but you better spell it right) you should find some sheet music to help get in the proper mood.
- SoM