Author Topic: Thinking about a 5-way switch on a Further/Tribute? (Read 361 times)

vjd3 · « **on:** October 28, 2004, 01:20:54 PM »

I'm having a lefty Further guitar built (gave the deposit yesterday), and I'm considering having a 5-way switch instead of the three individual on/bright/off switches. I've discussed it a bit with Susan, and she tells me they were thinking of trying this out themselves, so my guitar could be the first.

I play, of course, Grateful Dead music, live, and my current guitar is a slightly beat up lefty 80s American Strat modified with the DiMarzio Super II coiltapped pickups, a CAE buffer circuit and the TRS effects loop. I play through a Fender Vibrolux Reverb with JBL speakers and it pretty much nails the 80s/90s Garcia tone I'm looking for.

You can hear that guitar here (It's quite prominent in the mix on this track):

http://www.electrichummus.com/02Half-step.mp3

Or more here:

http://www.electrichummus.com/music.html

But I want a serious instrument now. I'm confident that the Further electronics will get me my Jerry tone plus a whole lot more, something the Strat does not allow.

One of the things I do on the Strat is leave the bridge pickup set as a humbucker, and the middle pickup single coil which is what I'm playing alone 90 percent of the time. If I'm hitting my overdrive pedal, I like to just throw the 5-way to the bridge pickup to give me a fatter tone. Or throw it to the neck pickup, or the inbetween positions for a traditional Strat sound ... with the tone controls set correctly, it gives me 5 sounds I can dial in and access easily onstage.

With the Further setup, I'd have to reach for the middle pickup switch to turn it off, reach for the bridge pickup switch to get it on (or bright), and so forth. So, the 5-way is attractive.

But with the 5-way, Susan is suggesting a single bright/non-bright switch that would control all three pickups simultaneously, which would take away the ability to, say, have the middle pickup bright and the bridge regular. The 5-way also eliminates the possibility of playing all three pickups simultaneously, as well as the bridge and neck pickups with the middle one off.

I'm looking for some input from Further/Tribute owners on how they use their pickup combinations. My instinct is to leave the guitar in stock configuration and live without the 5-way, but I'm still undecided.

Either way, I can't wait for the guitar!

Thoughts?
Vic

hollis · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2004, 03:13:25 PM »

Sounds nice Vic.

Welcome to the club.

Your Further is going to be awesome. Are you going to have it in the Factory to Customer section? I know that there are a whole bunch of us that would love to watch it come to life.

I'm not sure about the switch, if it were me, I'd want as many combinations as possible.

I have to go let my envy subside for a while.

(Message edited by hollis on October 28, 2004)

lbpesq · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2004, 03:29:43 PM »

Vic:

You might want to take a look at Beyond Further, the May, 2002 featured custom in the custom archive section:

http://alembic.com/info/fc_scf.html

Steve had a 5-way switch put in his. I don't know if Steve is a regular around these parts, if so let us know your thoughts, Steve. I'm also thinking about a 5-way vs. 3 on/off/brights on a custom Further. Perhaps Susan or Mica can contact Steve and post his thoughts now that he's had 2+ years to try the 5-way. (Oops, if my wife finds out I'm talking about a 5-way on the net it could get ugly).

Bill, the guitar one

David Houck · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2004, 07:30:17 AM »

Nice guitar work on the linked tune!

vjd3 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2004, 07:37:24 AM »

Thanks, Dave ... always nice to hear.

Bill, I did see that custom guitar, but I thought it was a precursor to the Further guitar, so the electronics were substantially different -- switchable caps for the tone controls and so forth. But I'd certainly be interested in any input he has to offer.

It occurred to me that the PRS guitars use a rotary knob as a 5-position switch, which would allow keeping the three bright/regular switches on the body at the expense of a tone control. Hmmm.

Vic

lbpesq · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2004, 09:33:04 AM »

Vic:

Beyond Further is a Further customized to incorporate some design cues from the Tribute, but it is a Further. Alembic guitars can be modified in almost any way you want, so long as it is possible, practical, and you can afford it. For example, on my Further, I am leaving out the on-board effects loop because I will never use it. I use a cordless and keep my guitar volume on 10 at all times. The cordless receiver goes into the pedal board which has a volume pedal as the last link before the amp. I use the pedal to adjust volume so my effects always see the same volume, basically the same result as the on-board effects loop, except for the tone controls. But I digress.

I am really responding to provide some insight about the PRS rotary switch. I have a CE24 with the 5-way and it sucks. Gibson did it much better on the ES-345 where they use a rooster head knob with plenty of room around it. PRS just sticks a volume knob on it and you have to remember 4 = bridge pickup, 5 = blah blah blah or some such. Good luck finding anything in the middle of a song. I basically only use the two extreme postions, neck vs. bridge pick up, during songs. For some country-ish material I might set it to one of the middle positions and then it stays there for the whole song. Also, the PRS 5-way controls 2 pick ups and provides coil splitting settings. The Alembic controls 3 humbuckers and I don't think they coil split at all (That's an interesting question: can Alembic PU's be wired for coil splitting?)

Anyway having played both a Strat style switch (the 5-way switch is the only mod to my '61 strat that I have had for almost 30 years - yes I bought it way back when for $125!!!) and a PRS, I STRONGLY recommend the strat style over the PRS which, other than type of switch, will essentially give you the same thing - 5 choices. The strat style is just so much easier to adjust on the fly.

Bill, the guitar one

vjd3 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2004, 10:38:14 AM »

Excellent points, Bill ... I've owned a lefty PRS Custom 22 with the McCarty electronics, but it had a Gibson-type switch for the pickups and pull-pots for the coil split.

Maybe I just need to do some exercises on working those little switches ... like a court stenographer or something ;-)

Vic

hollis · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2004, 11:07:10 AM »

Maybe so Vic,

My PRS has that 5 way rotary, and Bill's right on about it. It's very limited. The filters on Alembics are in a different ballpark. I'd love to have a third pup and filter myself.

One day.....

caveman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 31, 2004, 06:16:24 PM »

Recordings sound good! My Further should be arriving tomorrow, so i haven't had a chance to play with the controls yet, but I actually build guitars myself and have used the 3-switch combination on my own instruments as well. once you get used to it, it's actually pretty easy. I use a combination of my thumb, index, and middle finger to switch all three switches at once, into whatever combination i need. I,ve only designed passive circuits, but one circuit i built had an off/on switch for each pickup, all in a row, and then a series/singlecoil/parallel switch for each pickup also in a row. It had 3 single space humbuckers. I also own a PRS Artist Custom 22, with the five way rotary switch. Much like bill, I use the two extreme outer positions mainly, but sometimes use the middle position. It sucks trying to find it quickly! With the switching combination you favor, the 5 way does sound very attractive. Also, the strat 5-way provides 5 USEABLE tones, as opposed to 3 useable tones and 2 redundant tones, ala PRS rotary. The MOST versatile would be the 3 off/on/bright switches for your Further model, but you'd have to practice switching them. It's easier with off/on switches, 'cuz you don't have to worry about that middle section of the switch. On my guitar, I left the bridge in series and the middle and neck pups in parallel, practically all the time.

vjd3 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 31, 2004, 07:30:07 PM »

Thanks ... can't wait to hear your opinions on the sound of your new guitar. What I would really like is the 5-way, plus individual bright/regular switches for all 3 pickups but it would be very cluttered. I had also thought of using pull-pots on the individual tone controls to activate the bright or regular but Susan said that would be difficult to accomplish. And I still wouldn't be able to play the neck and bridge pickups together.

caveman · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2004, 07:01:36 AM »

To me that's the only drawback to the 5-way switch. The outer two pickups are my favorite sound. I'm not exactly sure of the architecture of the preamp circuitry, but maybe susan could have the guys install an off/on switch on the neck or bridge pickup to bypass the 5 way switch? another way of getting all 7 pup combos.

andrewknight · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2004, 07:11:50 AM »

I'm still new to my Tribute, but I already have about 20 hours of flight time with it. I am finding that in a short amount of time I am becoming very fast at getting the tones that I want using the individual off/on/bright switches. It is so much more intuitive to me than any of the other switch types. In addition, with the three switches and the extent of control with the tone knobs, it becomes easy quickly to set up tones by getting each tone knob ready, then flipping just one switch to change the tone. I think it's easier and I know that the combinations are greater. I'm really loving the added control and finding it easier to learn my desired settings.