It's a bit out there, but I need to ask.

[basstendencies]

Hey guys. I've been lurking here at the board for some time now, but this is my first post and official hello. So, that said, I've gots me a question for you.
 
I've had an idea in my head for a little bit now, and I was wondering if the fine folks at Alembic would build a 9 string bass? Adding to that, would you do a 36 fret fingerboard?

[jetbass79]

Welcome aboard!  Oh I bet they could and would do it.  It just takes money.  They made an 8 string bass for Trip Wamsley that was one of the featured customs and you should look at that.  It is called Ocean Blue.  The 36 fret fingerboard would probably put the location of the neck pickup(s) closer to the bridge pickup(s) since that's another 12 pitches above standard.  Since they do everything except make tuning keys and strap buttons they can make just about any component, probably even a 36 fret fingerboard.  That would be a lot of bass.  Again it just takes money and time.  You can call them up and chat with them about it, the Alembic people are totally cool to work with.

[David Houck]

Hi Jonathan, and welcome!  Here is the bass that John was talking about.

[sfnic]

36-fret board?  Hmmm.  Thinking out loud, here.  
 
Let's start with a 36 scale length, for the sake of arguement.  That gives a fret spacing of .2676 between the 35th and 36th frets.  Allowing another .1 or so for the fretwire, and you have a landing zone of about .17, or a smidge under 3/32 available for your finger.
 
Now, I have fairly large hands, and appropriately wide fingertips and, having played a 28-fret 34 scale bass, I've worked down to about .40 spacing (.30 landing zone).  I doubt I could _accurately_ fret much below that; maybe to a .28 LZ.
 
Even allowing for thinner fingers, though, I'd tend to think a practical limit would be about .22.  Anything narrower than that, and you run the risk of playing only the fret tops, without enough LZ behind to fret cleanly.  
 
What I ran into on the 28-fret neck was that unless I was very careful (and pressed a bit harder than normal), I ended up choking the note because of damping the string against the fret behind my target.  
 
Also, as John (jetbass) noted, there's not a hell of a lot of room left over for pickups.  Only 4.5, before allowing for the trussrod cover.  That takes up another 1.5 or so, leaving only 3 free.  The offset pair pickup configuration on the 8-string Dave linked to is needed to get the width, but you'd only have room for a single offset set, rather than two.  It might be worthwhile to see if Alembic can produce a wide-frame FatBoy: it'd be a shame to waste some of the bass response available from the strings and scale length by running pups with too narrow an aperature...
 
So the tradeoff for a 36-fret board are a last half-octave that's progressively harder to play cleanly, and less versatility in tone capabilities from the electronics.  You'd also probably need to have the filter breakpoints changed from the standard 6KHz to accomodate the higher notes the instrument can produce.  The lower breakpoint might have to be changed as well, which starts forcing changes in the overall filter design and some expensive component values.
 
So, it wouldn't be cheap, and it'd be hard to play, and while it'd sound fantastic, it wouldn't be as versatile tonally as a 24-fret bass would allow, but it could certainly be done.
 
All that said, it raises the question:  why 36 frets?
 
I'm not trying to talk you out of it; I'd be fascinated to see such an instrument come together.  :-)
 
nic

[David Houck]

A quick search of the net shows that there are shops producing 36 fret basses; and there are some interesting pictures to look at.
 
While reading Nic's post, one advantage I thought of was that it makes it a lot easier to find the harmonics.  For instance in one technique for plucking harmonics, if you are fretting an E on the 21st fret of the G string, you place your right thumb on the string half way between the fretted note and the bridge and pluck behind your thumb with your finger producing a harmonic.  With the additional frets, instead of guessing where halfway would be, you place your thumb on the string above the 33rd fret.  However, I'm guessing that most players who order these intruments aren't getting them just to make playing harmonics easier !

[sfnic]

Now, THERE'S an idea:  a 36-fret board length, but only fretted to 24, followed by a lined fretless section down to the end of the board.
 
(And, with the right pups, a fretless 36-fret board would be awesome.)
 
Thankls for checking that, Dave.  I think it's one of those prejudices I've had over the years: literally pre-deciding that something wouldn't work (for me) and then rationalizing that it shouldn't work for others.  I _still_ question the usefulness of frets that close together, but clearly _somebody_ buys them.
 
Now to try to figure out where to find a 36 set of strings for a 9-string...

[David Houck]

Hee hee!!  I like it!!  24 frets and an additional 12 lined fretless!

[bigideas]

Mr. Baudin, where are you? speak up. this is your area of expertise.
 
Conklin seems to be crazy enough to do anything (they have a few 36 fret 9 strings) and JP basses is building a multi-scale 12 and a  parallel fret 10. oh yeah, and a headless, fretless 8 string with piezo only (and midi.) i'm sure Alembic could easily compete with that insanity.

[basstendencies]

Ha, wow, I didn't expect this much of a response. Thanks guys.
 
I'm a huge fan of Jean Baudin, I've conversed with him lightly via emails. He's really an inspiration to me.  
 
I'm looking into Conklin for this project as well, simply because I know that it's something they can do. I've already had some minor conversation about balance and comfort with Bill Conklin.

[jacko]

nice site matthew, lots of eye candy.  jean looks to have a very tasty 6 string fretless epic although he's changed the pickups.
One thing I'd be interested in knowing is what benefit having fanned frets gives.
 
Graeme

[trekster]

Just a FYI... Harry Fleishman did 36-fret basses (the Steinberger-style Basic IV)all the way back in 1984, with two pickups -- a Jazz bridge pickup and a piezo-transducer within the bridge itself.  I'd post a picture, but the one I had I sold on bunnybass.com, and to see it in the archive you have to become a member (pzzt).
 
--T

[lbpesq]

Trekster:
 
As a brief aside, should we offer you condolences on the passing of James Scotty Doohan?  In his honor, I'm thinking about ordering my next Alembic with dilithium crystals.
 
Bill, tgo

[basstendencies]

Taken from the Novax Website:
 
The fanning of the frets results from manipulating the scale length of the bass side of the neck relative to the treble side: the fret spacing is wider for the long scale and closer for the short scale.  
 
Looking inside a grand piano, or at a harp, we see that the string lengths vary with the pitches of the strings. But fretted instruments are traditionally constructed to a single scale length, negating the benefits of scale length relative to pitch. Since there are relatively few strings on most stringed instruments, compromises are made and string gauges are manipulated for workable results. Players, accustomed to the compromises of single scale-length construction, are often pleasantly surprised by the richness and clarity of Fanned-Fret? instruments. When the fanned-fret concept is applied to the six-string guitar, the resulting instrument has a focused sound - clear, articulate and balanced. Some players say more in tune or more accurate.  
 
One of the real advantages of the Fanned-Fret? concept lies in its application to instruments like the seven-string guitar, eight-string guitar, five-string bass, six-string bass, baritone guitar, and mandolin. The range of tunings and number of strings force compromises that make these instruments poor performers or even impractical when constructed with the traditional single scale-length. The fanned-fret concept addresses those problems and makes these intruments playable and practical.
 
Also, Jean didn't change the pickups on his Alembic. He bought it just before a show when he broke the headstock off his 5 string, and it came with the EMGs. The previous owner must have changed them.

[trekster]

Bill:
 
Jimmy's death was not unexpected..but sad nevertheless. And having his ashes blasted into space?  Awesome.  
 
--T

[jacko]

Thanks for the info Jonathon. I guess having a longer scale length on the low B would tighten it up alot.
 
graeme