Author Topic: Time Factor on your First Series Bass  (Read 918 times)

flpete1uw

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« on: April 27, 2013, 05:38:16 AM »
Hello Series Bass Players,
  On a recent post Harry asks Stanley Clarke how he likes his new Bass,  ?He said that he just needs to practice on it - for a year! But he didn't say anything negative? I found this intriguing because with much less talent I?m finding that it is taking me a long time to play my Series 1 (Purchased in 12/12!) live. I Love the Bass when practicing but I seem to have a lack of control on the Stage. The projection of the Series is so different than anything I have ever played.  So I wind up using my Distillate which is 2 switches and a low pass setting and its set. Nice to have such problems    
  So, not to hijack Harry?s post on an awesome experience I was wondering if anybody found this to be in their learning curves. 4 months later I am getting better with the Series and I?m working her in to the Stage but occasionally  getting looks ?Did you make your Bass Louder? on more energetic pieces.  
On the Learning Curve,
Pete

jazzyvee

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 07:25:14 AM »
I am in the same boat as you Pete I have series basses and find that I''m getting pretty good at using them at home when practicing but when I play on stage the whole sound dynamic is different so it's hard to determine what sound I'm giving.  I've had my S2 for just about a year now and still find it challenging to move from one sound to another confidently and quickly.  Most of the time I use my signature basses live because I am much more familiar with their sound and I can get sounds pretty fast between numbers. In fact I took my S1 out for a gig last night and found myself trying to tweak the settings between long notes with very little success.  
 
I don't subscribe to the idea of finding one setting and leaving it there. All the tracks I play live tend to require a different bass sound so I try to respect the track and do that.  
 
I've seen players at the alembic forum like afrobeatfool, Victor Little and Nate tweaking their basses almost instinctively so I think it is gonna take both you and I some time. :-)
 
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

afrobeat_fool

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2013, 07:29:50 PM »
Hi, fellas. It does take some time. The main question I have is if you are playing stereo or mono.
 If mono, then I would start by playing in live settings with only the bridge pick up. I think there is enough variable in the filter to give you most of the tone you want, without having competing signals throwing your sound off. I have begun thinking of the signals as separate. I know this sounds redundant, but as bass players we are used to hearing mono. In a live setting it is much easier define the direction of mono signals.  
   Have you ever had the sound swirl and frequencies drop out? The music becomes muddy. You can create this same effect with too many filters running simultaneously in you bass. Crossover between the filters cancels signals.  
   So, mono, one pickup and then add the second after you feel good about the sound with one. You can always go back to one.
   Stereo is another story. About half way thru this last road tour did I fully run confidently in  Stereo. But, I did not run the super filter in the chain. It got way too weird. Plus, it is not necessary.
   For the neck pickup I ran thru 2 12's and a 15. The bride pickup was thru 2 4/10 cabinet' s. I set them at what I consider my flat sound and brightened it with the bridge pickup.
   There is a lot of feel with these basses. I really try to get out in front of the stage and close my eyes. Feel the music. Make my adjustments with almost intuitive sense. With S1 it could be moving from the high or low pass to the band pass switch and then roll the filter. With the S2 it is so much easier. Just roll and change the attack. I also feel the master volume setting changes the presence in the mix with other musicians.  
   I am glad to have a connection with both of you, Pete, and Jazzy. I hope my ramble has helped. Both of you have the bug and are great players. All the best.
 
Nick

edwin

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 03:01:39 AM »
It's interesting. My philosophy has always been to jump off into the deep end with new gear. Practicing at home with things like this is good, but it's never the same, so by not playing the bass at a gig, I'm delaying the inevitable. It might mean that at a few gigs, I'm confused or frustrated, but the reality is that I'm the only one who feels that way. I've gone through shows where I've felt like my tone was utterly peculiar, but the only comments I've gotten were positive. So, it's come home to me again and again that 99% of this is all in the fingers and brain and the instrument and tonal settings are much less crucial. Of course, that's given that the gear is all good quality and functional. I'll set the bass and amp in a certain way, as an experiment or going for a certain sound, but, as I play the instrument, I'm always adapting my technique to get it to deliver the sound I want, regardless of where I set the controls.  
 
It does seem to me that a Series II setup is a bit easier. I had always been a bit frustrated with the three position switches, because the sound I heard in my head always seemed to be in between two of the positions. Moving quickly between tones on a SII setup is a bit more involved, but it seems more satisfying to me. Of course, my experience is limited to a SII in a Starfire, not with an actual Alembic bass, but I think I can separate out the influence of the bass and the electronics.
 
Series electronics feel different to me from standard electronics in that they have different functions and outcomes. It's less about grand equalization shapes and a lot more about sculpting the attack and envelope of the notes. With a standard setup, getting that big fat reggae tone is a pretty straightforward affair. With a Series bass, but it's not going to be as easy to get that big low end boost in a similar fashion. But, I've found that if you think more about what the envelope of those notes should sound like and how each pickup contributes to that sense of the sound, it's pretty doable. However, the pickup blend control becomes even more important, as I find myself using the blend of the pickups like a mixer between two sources of sound that each have an aspect of the final tone I'm looking for.  
 
I know that all sounds a bit abstract, but it's actually pretty visceral. After doing it for a while and feeling what it feels like on  stage, it becomes clearer what I need to do. Maybe years of being an audio engineer helps make it more intuitive, but I really love the Series filters. Standard bass electronics tend to be a lot more set and forget, or compensation for issues with the bass, amp or room. Series electronics are a lot more about sculpting with sound.

flpete1uw

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 04:02:13 AM »
Well Alright!!
   To be in the same company as Stanley and this crew is quite humbling and also gives me comfort that I?m not alone.  
Jazzy, we?ll get it just because we are working at it and look at all this support!! I?m wondering if the Master Volume on your Signature and my Distillate helps?  I also find the inflections playing the Series are much more sensitive with more Dynamic Range than the AXY?S on the Distillate.
 
Nick, Your input is always welcome. I have been using the Series in Mono with both pickups on, similar to the how I use the Persuader. Neck pickup as a main and the Bridge as the Tonal bight. I have experienced the frequency issues you spoke of but with my limited experience it was more of a hollow sounding effect? No drop outs. I will try your suggestion of 1 pickup at a time.  
 
Edwin, I did go for it at first but I found some of the people I play with and the Sound guy getting a little frustrated. No complaints when I was on but I just do not have the proficiency with the Series yet so if there is a mistake you hear it. Good observation on the standard electronics on the ease to get them dialed in. This is why it was so easy to fall back on. Just think a Distillate to fall back on! I will start to look at the Series a little differently in shapes sculpting the sound.  
 
The one thing that keeps me going is the sound of the Series you hear everything. I find myself looking for chords more now. A Band member said that Bass is Wicked Awesome it needs to become an extension of your body.
Thanks Guys
Pete

jazzyvee

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 12:40:36 PM »
Yeah I accept the long on the job learning experience as part of the territory with these basses. It took me ages to grasp the signature electronics and now I'm pretty confident at getting to and from sounds quickly so it will take quite a few gigs to grasp the controls with confidence in a live context.  
 
Interestingly with both series basses adjusting the level of any one of the volume pots or filters changes the overall volume of the instrument. However with the series II, i can use the master volume and still keep the ratio I have found between the two filters. With the series I,  generally I have to adjust the opposite volume control to keep the same instrument volume which then changes the sound so in that case i think it's similar to what happens on a signature bass with a pan pot.
 
The pickup switch to be honest I don't use at all during playing and generally it is used so I can isolate the pickup I want to form the basis of my tone. So for example If I want to get that kind of Victor Baily/Jaco/Jimmy Haslip kind of tone, I switch to the bridge pickup to get that familiar tone then switch back to both pickups and blend in the neck pickup to give me an appropriate amount of meat in the bottom adjusting both volumes to suit.  For the times I need some slap tones I tend to start with the Neck pickup for most of my tone then add in some of the bridge with the filter virtually fully open to get some attack and sting to the tone.  
 
I think my biggest problem is that when I'm playing and trying to reach a particular sound, I can't decide if what I want is more or less Q at the cut off frequency, adjustment of the filter position , an adjustment of the volume, change in plucking position,  or any combination of those three parameters, then combine that with having that dilemma across two pickups.
 
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

hieronymous

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 07:54:50 PM »
This is a really interesting discussion. I am finally in a band again, but haven't used my Alembics with it yet. Well, I've used my AlFemBic, the P-Bass with P-J Activators. That was a trip, but I won't go into it here - it's like the opposite of Series I - you have one filter for two pickups, with no Q-switch! (I ended up leaving it with the highest filter setting and leaving it there - long story that will be told another time...)
 
I want to use my Stanley Clarke Signature 5-string but need to get the neck worked on first - needs a heat bend so I can use roundwounds. I had Alembic change the Signature guts to Anniversary, which is as close as you can get to Series in terms of control - separate volumes and filters for each pickup (and mono/stereo option). I'm imagining have the neck pickup set with 0 Q and cutting it off deep in the low end, maybe 300 Hz? Then having the bridge pickup set with higher Q and adjusting that depending on what we are doing - either blending it with the neck pickup or even cutting it out with the selector switch - not sure if I will have volume issues, but fun to fantasize about!
 
Up until now I've been using 4 basses with the band - the AlFemBic, a Fender CIJ Duck Dunn Signature P-Bass with GHS flats, an early-'70s Gibson Les Paul Triumph bass strung with LaBella flats (it's a short scale bass with low impedance pickups and built-in transformer), and an early-'70s Guild M-85 II fretless also with LaBella flats and also short scale. I'm finding that I enjoy playing both with oldschool thump with the flats, and also with a bright roundwound modern sound. Wondering if I can get the best of both worlds with the SC...
 
And SOMEDAY I WILL use the doubleneck live!!!

flpete1uw

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 03:22:02 AM »
Harry,
 I?m glad you chimed in and are interested because the light bulb moment for me came with your post with Stanley. Which by the way a very cool post!  
Jazzyvees last post last paragraph has a nice summery as to what we are experiencing. I would add to that the Series pickups seem to have more Dynamic Range and are more responsive to finger control. The slightest inflection shows up when playing. One of my control issues is when the Music gets going a bit I need to be more on the lookout of pluck inflections. Inflection control of this type isn?t nearly as important on any other Bass I?ve ever played including my other 2 non Series Alembics.
Can?t wait to hear about your tales of discovery.
Living and Learning
Pete

flpete1uw

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 05:00:37 PM »
OK I?ve been spending a lot of time A/B ing My Series and Distillate. The Series has Chromes (Flats) the Distillate has Slinkys (Rounds nickel). Both 45 to 100. So the comparison isn?t quite A/B however I?m finding much better low end on the Distillate? You would think the Flats on a Series would give a lower response. Amp setting is Mesa Walkabout all settings at 12.  
 So a general question, is there anything about the Series Bass on the Low End different from non Series Basses?
Pete  
flpete1uw

mica

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 06:05:07 PM »
I think for Stan, it's a question of getting used to the extra string, Series I is second nature to him.  
 
Different scale lengths + different woods + different strings = different tones. The filter controls have the same range, so the difference you are hearing is from the scale length, woods, strings or all of the above.  
 
Also pickup height will have an impact on the sounds as well. Make sure you're not only noticing a gain difference, which sometimes is trixy to hear as just gain.

flpete1uw

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 07:00:06 PM »
Mica,
 Your insight is always enlightening, yes my Series 1 is Short Scale, Maple/ Walnut neck, Koa top, Zebra Back, Maple body and the Distillate is 32? Scale, Maple / Purple Heart neck, Coco Bolo Top and Mahogany body. So there is a difference. I play both Basses with and without amplification and there is a nice correlation in what is being amplified from the tonal aspects of the unplugged Bass. This could definitely be a part of it. I don?t hear it to be a gain difference but a Timbre one. At this moment of both Basses configuration my Distillate just sounds cleaner with a better snap and definition at the low end and the Series is muddy in comparison?   Otherwise the Series is clean as a whistle and a joy to play.
 The learning curve continues,
Pete

hieronymous

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 10:50:52 PM »
When I saw Stanley Clarke recently, it was the first time I had seen him play electric live in person. Mica is right - he was completely at ease with the bass, grabbing the filter knob and just slamming it into a new position and then ripping licks out of the bass!
 
Pete, great to hear about the comparison - maybe the Series is just way more flat - but it's giving you all the sonic information, just in a more even way, so that you can use a preamp or SF-2 to tweak out the frequencies you want in the bottom? Sometimes you hear people complain that Alembic pickups lack bass, but I think it's just that they are so clear and full-range whereas people get used to hearing a low-mid-frequency bump like with split-coil p-bass pickups, so not hearing that, they think the Alembics lack bass, but it's there. If that makes any sense...

jazzyvee

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 11:14:48 PM »
Hi Harry I've heard and read that said about Alembic being bass shy. However I have been told many times especially on reggae gigs by musicians and engineers that the bottom end is so clear and even and heavy.  
 
I have been experimenting with the bridge filter to see if I can get some of that emphasis/bump in tonality as many reggae tracks I play are heavy but have a different tone and feel.
 
Also Aston Family Man Barrett has a 5 string Elan so as a pioneer of heavy bass lines alembic must be up to the job. We just have to find the sounds we want.  
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9erbL9j3v5M
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html

afrobeat_fool

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2013, 06:20:20 PM »
When I am playing raggae I have my neck pickup around 80 hertz. Afrobeat I set it a little higher. With afrobeat, I am looking for the tonal range of the Bootsy JBs era. The attack mid, and the dampening ratio at 7. Now with that being said, the stereo component of the equation, alters this somewhat.
 
 The neck pickup going to the bassiest of speakers can bet set to a very low frequency, say 50hrz. The bridge pickup can create the mid and upper range and give the clarity desired. Talk about super dub tone. Bonus, the slap comes thru in a big way.
 
Mica, if you are reading this thread I have come to a wonderful description of the wonders of the stereo Alembic instrument. The ability of the instrument is the creation of the sum being greater than the parts.  
 
The most awesome sound is the neck pickup too flat and muddy, and the bridge too thin and bright. Nasty. But combined, is very powerful.
 
Here is the point. It took years of playing first 1180, and then AC 405, before I really understood the subtleties of the electronics and then brought stereo into the mix. Now I can't imagine not having it. The expression on people's faces the first time they hear one channel clean and the second with wild effects is priceless!
 
Great link, baba. Love the family man!
 
Nick

jazzyvee

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Time Factor on your First Series Bass
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 10:59:51 PM »
Do you combine the channels back down to a mono signal after processing or do you keep them separated from bass all the way to the speaker cabs?
 
Jazzyvee
The sound of Alembic is medicine for the soul!
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_ktwins.html