Author Topic: In need of guidence (Read 2331 times)

rockerdebassman · « **on:** August 30, 2015, 01:29:46 PM »

Hey there Alembic club musicians. I need some help, since I'd be a fool not to ask for help when there are so many well educated and helpful enthusiasts about. I've seen the error of my ways and now aspire an upgrade from my Kubicki factor.

Certainly at this point I am open to considering all models, but I'm leaning toward the SC SIG or Deluxe (depending on value). I've capped my budget for the purchase at $3-4K US, but sure would like to spend a lot less (of course) and have contemplated holding off on a purchase till I've accrued more of a war chest. I'd sure like to find one in perfect condition, since I'm a stickler at keeping my basses in excellent condition, yet I understand that I need to be realistic because I can't afford a new build (rats).

As for my style of play, I like funk, modern jazz, classic rock, blues and opera (kidding about opera). So, I play a variety of styles. I played professionally for quite a few years as a young fellow, but at 56, and partially disabled, I'm doing more studio work of late. That said, I do need limelight once in a while, most recently with a blues band, since modern jazz is not popular in Dayton OH. If I had my druthers I'd play lots of funk!

Here are a few recordings should you have interest in understanding my attack, etc. Yes, I'm sure my playing would sound much better on an Alembic, which is why I have the bug!

The Mover (hey I wrote this one! )
http://secure.indabamusic.com/asset/show/1733927

It's Coming Someday Soon (muddy mix, but I like the bass line)
http://www.kompoz.com/music/collaboration/61986

Hope (fine keys)
http://www.kompoz.com/music/collaboration/55651

I use a vintage SVT with an EV 18 pro series in a Sonic cab, and a 2X10 for the high end. Reading how many of you are pros with monster rigs and marvelous Alembic preamps, ETC, perhaps I will make changes down the road. I play dry, with little effect if any.

So, I will check the leads I see posted at the forums. Any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated. I most certainly will maintain a dialogue here before I make any purchasing decisions. I've come to the mountain with hope the wise guild will guide my purchasing decision.

Please ask me more qualifying questions if you have them, since I feel quite the nOOb after reading your posts.

5a_quilt_top · « **Reply #1 on:** August 31, 2015, 11:34:16 AM »

Re: your choice of bass - the SC models are arguably the lightest and smallest and have comparatively small, fast necks. The electronics are pretty versatile with a master volume, pan and a filter control for each pickup.

I have a stock short scale SC Sig Deluxe and also a 32 scale Rogue with an SC neck carve, standard Rogue electronics and a Fatboy in the bridge position. Both are a breeze to navigate and are effortless to play standing for an entire evening.

If you're into funk - the standard SC model is right in your wheelhouse and won't break your back (or anything else) during a gig.

However, if you can locate a Rogue or Europa model with a smaller neck carve, either would also be worthy of consideration, especially if something longer than short scale is what you need.

FYI: a lot of the weight comes from the neck, so instruments with smaller / thinner necks tend to weigh less overall - just beware of neck dive on smaller-bodied instruments - which is why I suggested the Rogue or Europa models as they were designed with balance in mind.

Re: rig - your current rig will be fine. I've used my Alembics through a wide variety of amps and cabs and have discovered that almost any decent properly-functioning rig can be tweaked to accommodate an Alembic instrument. The most difficulty I've had to date was using a small 2X10 Ampeg combo to amplify my 5-string Europa and expecting it to handle the low-B string - NO BUENO - ! Fortunately, there was enough clarity coming from the instrument itself that it almost compensated for the lack of headroom and the small speakers.

rockerdebassman · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2015, 01:18:10 PM »

Thanks for the reply, Quilt.

Part of the dilemma I face is that I can't just go down the the music store and play each model to see which best fits me. I'm going by what I read and hear via recordings/YouTube. I feel a sense of comfort in knowing every Alembic will be an upgrade for me; it's like buying a performance vehicle without a test drive.

Can you play fast slap technique on a 5 string Europa as well as a 4 string? I ask because I noticed Clarke and Wooten and others are mostly playing 4 strings.The factor bass has that drop D, which I like, and will miss that feature whereas going with a 5 string will give me more lower frequency options?

Are the series electronics of better quality than the other basses or does it depend? I understand many have neck drop because of the imbalance ,which doesn't concern me, but I wonder how useful a stereo feature is of benefit in the studio?

The SC Std and Custom, no Q control?

/used to play a blonde Rick (Chris Squire influence) using two amps and wish I never sold it.

Matt

(Message edited by rockerdebassman on August 31, 2015)

(Message edited by rockerdebassman on August 31, 2015)

hammer · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2015, 02:32:54 PM »

Matt:

The Q controls on a Series II bass are continuously variable (CVQ) and provide from 0 to 15 db of boost at whatever cut off frequency has been set with the filter. The Signature models (Standard or Deluxe) also have Q controls but in the way of switches. With a 2-way switch it's either off (0db) or you get an 8 db boost at the cut off frequency. A 3-way switch I believe provides a 0, 6, or 9db boost options. Most Signatures from what I remember come with 2-way Q switches, but you can order them with 3 as I did. So...its not as if Signatures don't have Q controls, they are just not quite as flexible as that which you'd get on a Series II bass. Someone else can confirm this, but I don't think Series I basses come with CVQ, but rather a 3-way Q switch.

keith_h · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2015, 03:30:43 PM »

Matt,
For your question about slapping being faster on a 5-string or a 4-string, only you can answer that one. There are a lot of slapping bass players that play both types. Having both 4 and 5 string comfort taper necks I will say both have the same feel with the exception of the 5-string being wider to accommodate the extra string.

There are a number of people on the forums that have successfully added a detuner to the E string so there is not reason to give that up if you like it.

As far as electronics go they all have the Alembic sound just to different degrees. To muddy the water I think the wood combination has a greater effect on how the bass sounds than the electronics package. I like the Series electronics the best as there is something about the single coil pickups that just open up the sound. I also have Anniversary, Essence and East Meets West. They all have filters and Q-switches like my Series I and the EMW also has standard bass and treble controls. The non-Series basses use hum cancelling pickups. While I think many folks prefer the Series electronics there are some folks on the forum that prefer the non-Series sets. It really boils down to personal preference.

The only model that has variable Q control, I assume this is what you are talking about, is the Series II. The others use 2 or 3 positions switches as either standard equipment or as an option.

As far as balance goes a lot depends upon what model you are talking about and the neck length. You also need to get used to some styles having their natural neck position closer to 3 o'clock as opposed to the Fender 1 o'clock. I have two small body, short scale basses (i.e. Stanley) and for these the neck's naturally want to sit around 3 o'clock as I play higher up on my body this actually feels quite comfortable. My two long scales are Orions which share the body shape of the Europa. Like most instrument bodies that resemble Fender basses these sit more naturally with the neck around 1 or 2 o'clock. Of the two the 4-string is closer to 1 o'clock and the 5-string being nearer to 2 o'clock. On some of the other body shapes long scale necks will dive but the 32 medium scale doesn't which is one reason I think you see a fair number of medium scale basses. They are also easier to reach the first position. I haven't played them a lot but the large body long scales I've played balance ok but again it is lower than the Fender style bodies. Where it actually settles has a lot to do with where you position the bass.

My first Alembic was a 5-string Orion with Essence electronics. I added Q switch and used this for about a year as my mostly main bass. I then bought a 4-string Brown Bass with Anniversary Electronics. This became my main bass for many years and is still what I take with me to things like open mic's or jams where I leave my rig at home. My third bass was a custom 4-string, fretless Orion with East Meets West electronics. It is my only fretless so is played whenever I want to use a fretless. Over all this is probably my favorite as there was just something about the sound of the ash body and set neck that resonates with me. My latest bass is a custom small body, short scale Series I. This has become my main bass for gigging or when I am asked to record backing tracks for a friend's gospel studio. It is much meatier than the Brown Bass but a lot of that has to do with the woods. Where the BB has mellower woods like walnut and mahogany the Series is maple, purple heart and vermilion. With it I can get a very piano like sound but with a little change to the filters or EQ can get a slap tone or deep blues bass.

Personally I wouldn't be too concerned about what model you get as long as it uses filters. You mention the Europa. I think this is about the best performance bass Alembic makes. With the single filter and quick change switches it is fairly straight forward change your tone repeatably in a live situation. It would also be a good model to determine what features you want in your next Alembic. In the end though a lot depends upon how much you have to spend then keep in mind any Alembic in that price range will do you well.

Keith

rockerdebassman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 31, 2015, 09:18:04 PM »

I'm seeing a favorable pattern here: Alembic owners are more intelligent and knowledgeable than the average lot of musicians. Such a great source.

Hammer, you did answer my question. I get the sense that a series 2 bass would be ideal for recording, that other models might fend better in a live performance situation. At least the learning curve wouldn't be as steep. Certainly, the rotary Q feature looks fascinating to me and I can see it could be an issue having such control (messing with settings between songs, etc).

Keith, I get the feeling you have your doctorate in Alembicology! Wow, that is a lot of info for me to absorb. I've read where many club members begin with a particular model, then use their experience with the instrument to hone interest for their next purchase. So, the artistic aspect aside (as it seems many of these fine basses are complex in their construction, using such a variety of fantastic woods), from a studio perspective--along with the fact that I doubt I'll ever be able to own more than one at a time-- if you had to select just one of your basses which would you select? I understand this is a loaded question, but I am curious and I do realize such things are a matter of individual preference.

The more I read from you folks, my girlfriend will have issues with me sleeping with my Alembic because I plan to spend countless hours with it!

keith_h · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2015, 07:26:03 AM »

Its close but I would say my fretless Orion is my overall favorite. At least it is the one I reach for when I am just looking to pickup a bass and play. Of my fretted basses no question it is the Series I.

I think any model works well for recording or live. With the exception of my 5-string Orion I have used all of my Alembics successfully for both. If you look at Stanley or Jimmy Johnson both use Series II in the studio and live. Stanley also uses a Series I live. You will also find plenty of Series I basses being used for both. Flea used an Epic on the Red Hot Chile Peppers One Hot Minute album. Not to mention Metalica bassists using everything from Spoilers to Series II's. There is a lot to choose from but to paraphrase from my previous update none of the various models will let you down.

Keith

rockerdebassman · « **Reply #7 on:** September 02, 2015, 10:39:14 AM »

Keith and Co,

What would you say the series 1 bass listed at e-bay is worth, based upon a general range. I'm not bidding, just trying to gauge value based upon condition and what info is presented. I figure this might be a good way to learn? From XXX to XXX?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-Alembic-Series-1-Bass-Guitar-Very-Good-Condition-No-Reserve-/252073120882

(Message edited by rockerdebassman on September 02, 2015)

FC Bass · « **Reply #8 on:** September 02, 2015, 11:19:17 AM »

I think this one will sell for +/-3500, but I know it's worth a lot more! :-)

hammer · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2015, 08:38:56 PM »

Matt:

Need to know. Did you get this one?

rockerdebassman · « **Reply #10 on:** September 02, 2015, 09:58:20 PM »

No I didn't. I was not ready to bid, Hammer. Looked like a good deal. US $3,071.75

jazzyvee · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2015, 12:15:09 AM »

That's a good price. I'm sure both parties will be pleased with that.

(Message edited by jazzyvee on September 03, 2015)

bigredbass · « **Reply #12 on:** September 23, 2015, 10:13:38 PM »

Rocker, I would also urge you to really think through a 4-string with a detuner vs. a 5-string.

IF . . . . .

. . . you're happy with a 4 and the occasional dropped E-flat or D (remember, I'm saying occasionally), you need to think this over. . .

. . . since I always caution people that the complete up-ending of your frame of reference by adding that B is getting a few extra low notes the hard way. The real secret of going to a five (or more) is that you can finger and play things in different positions just not possible, or much harder, on a four. I've done it long enough that I could not go back to a four, as it's just too much work, and I've gotten real used to playing in E-flat without re-tuning.

Food for thought, and good luck.

Joey

moongerm · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2015, 05:08:05 AM »

Hi Rocker,

To add to what Joey advised, you mentioned lots of musical styles and studio recording. If you are only considering 1 bass in your budget a 5 string would be the better choice as a lot of artist (I find) like to write tunes that warrant playing C# down to a low open B. I personally prefer playing a 4 string however it is not as all purpose as a 5 string especially if you are playing other people's tunes.

I took the time years ago after playing 5 string for many years as my primary, to get back to playing a 4. The 4 string is better (generally) in terms of comfort with less to worry about (dampening the B string and navigating a wider fingerboard). It forced me to gain more facility expanding my horizontal single string vision and navigating physical position shifts, much like the piano. This can of course be done on the 5 string resisting the use of the B string.

Another thing to consider is to get a 4 string if you prefer and have either a 2nd bridge (and saddles made) made or buy new bridge saddles (you can purchase them on the Alembic store I believe) made to support a low b to d tuning or even an a to c tuning. Alembic basses with their fabulous neck construction, wood selections, and dual truss rods can support making these tension changes less stressful vs other basses from what I have seen.

In terms of electronics, go for the series (2) arrangement if you can swing them, and you won't miss a thing. There is nothing else like em that I have experienced. At a minimum anything filter based as Keith mentioned above.

Best of luck in whatever you aquire.

-Brian

5a_quilt_top · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2015, 11:22:07 AM »

+1 on 5, if it will be your only bass.

These days, it's almost assumed that the bassist will have one.

And having one certainly makes navigating through the old let's try it in this key, oh wait, maybe this one would work better... situation a little easier to deal with.

The only time I'd prefer to use a 4 is if there's going to be a lot of slap-style stuff required - but, the comfort taper neck on my Europa 5 is pretty easy to use for that, so it works for most of my needs.

And - Series II electronics are, without a doubt, the most versatile. If can snag an SII with 5 strings, you'll be stylin'.