Author Topic: The big rig (Read 2282 times)

coop · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2014, 12:58:36 PM »

Slawie, a cool rig, indeed! I have a TC RH750 and have wondered how the TC cabs sound. I normally play 2 Eden 112s, but love the idea of a small 212. What are the pros and cons of TC's cab design, sound, and construction?

jazzyvee · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2014, 07:23:33 PM »

I tried a couple of those 2x10 cabs today at soundcheck. The support band bassist had them with a matching tc electronics amp.
I liked the sound but for me it didn't push out and enough bottom end to feel the bass as well as hear it. Thats a pretty important requirement for me. I guess having a setup with 4 cabs should rectify that though. :-)
Jazzyvee
Btw the bassist loved my bocate europa.

(Message edited by Jazzyvee on February 28, 2014)

slawie · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2014, 08:49:44 PM »

Bradley, I also have an RH750. I have played that head with a single 210, 210+210,a single 212, 212+212, 210+212+212, 210+210+212. The min load is 3 cabinets and it's any 3 in combination. 3 cabs is overkill I found for most venues but my setup of choice for say a 500 head venue is plain old 210+212 and DI to the desk post instead of pre. I place the shallower 210 at the back of the bottom 212 so when standing at around 10 feet away sound from both cabs reaches my ear at the same time and loudness. I don't really understand the physics or even if what I am hearing is indeed what I'm saying but this is what I perceive.
With the RH750 I have 3 fairly broad ranges of presets. One is heavily bottom oriented and most of the tops are dialled out. Number two is selected frequencies across the the range all boosted with the tops also dialled out the result is heavy on the mids. Preset 3 opens all available frequencies and boosts the tops it's like Jaco's sound on steroids. Moving my right hand closer to the bridge brings in some nice piano like tones together with the range of controllable output from my series bass it's a huge and broad sound spectrum. I also use flats and have the tweeter control on the cabs at around 60-70%.
There is much to adjust on the TC amps and took me a good number of weeks to work out how the amp can best reproduce the signal generated by my bass.
TC amps and cabs are designed around each other and are best suited to work together in any combination.
The finish on the older cabs can be a bit harsh and scratchy and if your not careful can take off a couple of skin layers from knuckles. The newer cabs are shiny and not as rough and texturally more user friendly.
I have had no trouble getting a huge full bottom end and can click in a dub sound at the click of a footswitch.
I did have an annoying rattle occur but that just required a 1/4 turn of the screws for the rear port tube.
Stacking them 3 high is great for visual and audio linear array effect but not recommended as you end up with a small footprint with a high centre of gravity. OK if you are on concrete floor but on a stage it's only safe on the sturdiest of stages.
slawie

811952 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2014, 07:30:49 AM »

I love those TC cabinets!

alembic76407 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:12:28 PM »

this is a big amp

sonicus · « **Reply #20 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:02:33 PM »

The above is a Fender PS 400 . Berry Oakley used one in The Allman Brothers Band .

http://alembic.com/club/messages/395/178471.html?1382208142

http://timeelect.com/400-faq.htm

mtjam · « **Reply #21 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:09:03 PM »

Rigs don't get much bigger than the PS 400!

sonicus · « **Reply #22 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:20:47 PM »

The PS 400, physically had a big foot print ,however by todays standards that is not really that powerful . (Check out the specs in the lower link)

edwin · « **Reply #23 on:** March 07, 2014, 06:54:41 PM »

435 clean tube watts is pretty powerful. Given the way tubes operate differently from solid state at the point of saturation (in my experience you need a lot more headroom in a solid state amp to keep from objectionable sounds), it should be plenty. Most of us probably operate under 100 watts continuous power and go over that for the peaks. A few weeks ago I did an experiment during soundcheck, going back and forth between my Showman and a solid state amp rated at a little over 600 watts. The Showman held its own and had better tone. 435 clean tube watts would be way more than enough than I would ever need. Unless I was using a fairly inefficient speaker.

hankster · « **Reply #24 on:** March 07, 2014, 07:09:28 PM »

Great silver shades of 1970, Batman! I have never seen one of those!

edwin · « **Reply #25 on:** March 07, 2014, 07:27:51 PM »

Seeing one is one thing. Playing through it is another altogether! I've only played through one a couple of times and it only had two of the three outputs hooked up. I've wanted one ever since, but they are not that common.

sonicus · « **Reply #26 on:** March 07, 2014, 07:59:16 PM »

Edwin, Sure 435 tube watts is a good jolt . ____But look at the whole picture on the PS 400 , the 435 watts is distributed over 3 taps @ 145 watts each. Check out the speakers ; JBL D130's . I have had a few of those , and they always seem not to hold out well for me with the transients created from a Bass Guitar( resulting in distortion ) , at least for me. I think they sound better else where. ___ For old school 15's I still prefer Gauss 4580's .If I remember correctly the Gauss 4580's were used in the final incarnation in the Wall of sound in Mr. Lesh's Wall of Sound stack . I recently mounted a Gauss 4580 in an early Mesa Road Ready Cabinet that was originally based on the EV TL-606 design (ported rather then infinite baffle design as in the wall of sound). The Thiele -Small parameters don't match up exactly but the Gauss 4580 sounds nice in that box in my opinion . JBl D130's are great however for a pedal steel guitar. I still have a JBL D130 that I don't use much anymore. It ended up living in an old early Bagend cabinet, where it remains presently.

sonicus · « **Reply #27 on:** March 07, 2014, 09:03:40 PM »

As far as an all tube Bass rig goes , I think that the McIntosh MC 3500 would be a blast ! Perhaps two with an Alembic F-2B preamp to play in Stereo !

350W RMS continuous. 500W RMS Maximum.

Frequency Response: 20-20kHz (+0 -0.5dB).

Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.15%.
Intermodulation Distortion: Unmeasureable - ie behold measuring instrument threshold

Hum and Noise Levels: -95dB.

Output - Rated Load Impedances: 1, 4, 8, 16, 50 and 64 ohms.
Note: Rated Power Output for 1 ohm load is 300W and 4 Ohm load is 320W
Output Load Circuits: Can be isolated from ground - ie balanced output.

Internal impedance: less than 5% of Rated Load Impedance.
Input impedance: 200k.
Input sensitivity 1.1V RMS

(Message edited by sonicus on March 07, 2014)

edwin · « **Reply #28 on:** March 07, 2014, 09:43:47 PM »

Yeah, I wasn't going to bring the MC3500 up. It's a holy grail, but I can't afford it or the chiropractor. :-)

I wouldn't bother trying to play bass through a K130, regardless of what Rich at Time Electronics might say. A K140, in my experience, is a completely different game. I did the JBL to Gauss transition and while the Gauss drivers do handle more power, it felt to me that at the end of the day, all they did was handle more power. It took more power to get them to the same level that the K140s went to, so the net gain for me was a heavier speaker and a heavier amplifier for about the same results. Of course, all this depends on the right cabinets, etc.

The beauty is that we don't really have to choose. I like having a vintage Fender/JBL rig and also a modern Alembic/QSC/fEARFul rig.

sonicus · « **Reply #29 on:** March 07, 2014, 10:31:31 PM »

Edwin,
If you remember a while back I did a shoot out between a JBL K140 and a Gauss 4580, both were in identical Alembic A15 infinite baffle enclosures. All parameters were measured. The Gauss did in fact take more power to reach the same SPL , in my opinion it did hold up a tad better in the lower frequencies . ( that thread is here somewhere on this site) I always wanted to experiment with a Gauss 4580 in a ported cabinet and had not done so until recently. The early Mesa Road Ready EV TL-606 type box was a total game changer for the Gauss speaker. It came alive at lower power levels . I still prefer the JBL K140's in my old Alembic A15 infinite baffle& the others as such that I have.

For a big rig;___ What I really seem to like now are my EV 10's in Mesa Road Ready cabinets . I have one 4X10 box and two 2x10 box's . I can throw in the Gauss 4580 perhaps ___I like to power those with a Crest VS 900 and like all Alembic signal processing. For a small rig ; EV 10's and one of my many GK amps.

Here is the Alembic Signal process rack complete with the Alembic IN-2 that I rebuilt that had been in storage somewhere for decades .