Author Topic: FYI: Cable News from CES (Read 434 times)

hifiguy · « **on:** January 19, 2015, 01:56:46 PM »

Just to let everyone know, one of the leading cable companies in high-end audio, Nordost, will be releasing audiophile-grade high-performance mains cords, instrument cables and jumpers for stomp boxes very soon under the Nordost Ax Angel brand.

I don't work for Nordost but have used their superb cabling for many years in audio systems. If ever there were instruments that deserve this kind of cabling, it has to be Alembics.

dinan · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2015, 06:03:41 PM »

I have had the prototypes for the Ax Angel instrument cable and power cord since October and love them. I look forward to getting some of the pedal jumpers.

Those who haven't tried a truly high-end instrument cable should. It is an eye opener.

5a_quilt_top · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2015, 10:36:33 AM »

Have either of you tried Zaolla cables - if so, how do these compare?

I have a few Zaollas and have found that they sound good with Alembic basses and acoustic guitars, but are a bit harsh with pretty much anything else.

dinan · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2015, 06:30:29 PM »

I have not. The Nordost is quite a bit more expensive with a 4M at $350 and a fairly complex design by comparison so I would expect it to be considerably more neutral than the Zaolla which may or may not be a good thing if you like what those do to the top end. With guitar, I would expect far more difference advantage Ax Angle.

They are worth a look!

coop · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2015, 05:01:25 PM »

$350 for 4m of cable? You must be sh*tting me!!

Cable is cable. Unless those 1/4 plugs will be making you coffee and serving it to you, there is no reason to buy more than a well constructed cable like a Whirlwind or Mogami. Even a Hosa is just fine and will pass electrons as well as the best oxygen free, gold-plated terminal, made by vestal virgins cable. Egads.

Read this: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

The high-end cable issue is all smoke and mirrors, with people paying top dollar for something they feel is better frequency response, but is empirically proven to be poppycock.

Buy a well constructed cable for $50 or make your own for $10. It's all the same.

bigredbass · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2015, 09:52:15 PM »

Regardless, I do know one thing: IF the megabuck cables really did improve things, why is it that when you open up really, really expensive cabinets (which would certainly be the target market for high-dollar 'interconnects'), the wiring from the input jacks, crossovers, etc., is just tiny 18 or 20 guage wire? Why wouldn't they be built with those kinds of cabling internally, if there really was anything to this?

I was always taught good cable and connectors, proper solder job, and as short a run as practical.

Ben Rich's book SKUNK WORKS spoke of how they'd shoot for an 80% 'good enough' in their designs (imagine, the A12/SR71 was designed by a total of 75 guys, with slide rules) as that last 20% doubled the cost, doubled the time involved, for an almost negligible improvement in the real world, performance wise. I feel the same way.

Joey

keith_h · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2015, 06:24:19 AM »

The biggest factors to be concerned with are resistance and capacitance.

For the most part resistance doesn't become a real issue until you get into longer cable runs such as you see in PA systems speaker runs. You can also run into issues with connections that are never exercised. Neither of these are typically issues for musicians unless their stuff never leaves the studio.

The most cost effective way to reduce resistance is to just increase the diameter of the wire. This works very well for longer cable runs or power chords for that matter. Using oxygen free copper wire can also help and is one of the few things that doesn't dramatically increase the cost of the wire. For live music use I would just go with larger gauge wire and forget about oxygen free.

For connections that don't get exercised, such as a stereo, I would look to gold connectors. It is usually cost effective and minimizes resistance build up over time due to oxidation. Of course if both halves of the connection aren't gold, like many RCA connectors, you are still subject to oxidation on the non-gold half and I would just go with good quality standard connectors.

The capacitance of a cable affects the high frequency response. A high capacitance cable will attenuate the higher frequencies so you want a cable with low capacitance. Any decent quality audio cable will be low capacitance as will be the cheapest guitar chord at the music store. The exception are those Bass Guitar chords that claim to increase the low end. What they are really doing is decreasing the higher frequencies due to a higher capacitance.

To paraphrase Brad, the most important thing in a cable is to use good quality components so you have a reliable chord that lasts.

Keith

mario_farufyno · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2015, 11:56:22 AM »

Wouldn't put it better, thanks Keith

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2015, 07:39:39 AM »

Those seem pretty cheap. Check out these: http://www.slashgear.com/audioquest-cat-6-cable-promises-big-sound-for-audiophiles-12368707/. I love how the article points out their ability to transmit mp3's with high accuracy.

lbpesq · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2015, 10:14:05 AM »

Improve the sound of MP3s by purchasing an ethernet cable for $10,500! I know a much better way to improve the sound for much cheaper - buy a Pono player and s**tcan the MP3s! $399.

Bill, tgo

keith_h · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2015, 10:36:23 AM »

An MP3 is what it is and nothing will change that. Spending my whole career in the computer field I'm obviously not as savvy as an audiophile about hooking up ethernets but the last I checked it isn't the six feet between my modem and/or router and house wiring that was the problem.

Keith

hydrargyrum · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2015, 02:39:39 PM »

Hell, for 10,500 screw the cable and the Pono and call up Alembic to start a custom.

tmimichael · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2015, 11:05:46 AM »

As much as I hate getting in the middle of these cable discussions, I'm gonna chime in here.
It would be really easy to refer to articles and reviews of cables (or any electronics) by people who consider themselves experts, and either suggest that a lamp cord makes an perfectly adequate speaker cable, or else you need to mortgage your house for a set of exotics in order to hear everything. Many electronics/electrical engineers say there's no difference because you can't see it on a scope.
But having been a musician for over 40 years, FOH guy for many years, (self professed) audiophile for 25+ years, and ALEMBIC owner, I fall somewhere in between.
While I realize that the law of diminishing returns kicks in somewhere up the food chain, I think real advances in the science of electrical engineering have yielded some honest gains in the field of cable technology. Granted, some people may consider any money spent on cables to be a waste where musical instruments are concerned (as opposed to home audio), but why then do we play Alembics?
Because Ron, Susan, Mica and the staff have spent YEARS scrutinizing every aspect of bass reproduction...every little thing has been examined, re-examined, torn apart and rebuilt, to make every link in the chain reproduce the sound of that set of strings as perfectly and completely as possible, so that you have a pallet unlike any other bass in the world, to create your personal sound.
I see the EE community doing the same thing to cable technology over the past 20 years.
I mentioned many EE guys say there's no difference because they can't see it on a scope, but who watches a scope when you're listening to music (or playing it)? My point?
LISTEN.
Go listen and determine for yourself if a guitar cable (and the myriad of short jumpers, etc.) make any perceived difference in your sound...positive or negative. If they do, and it's a positive one, why wouldn't you use them on the finest electric bass (or guitar) the world has ever known?

And since it really is easy to recommend expert articles and reviews concerning cable technology (and audio in general), here is a link to one I found really interesting...because COOP, I can't agree with you that Even a Hosa is just fine and will pass electrons as well as the best oxygen free, gold-plated terminal, made by vestal virgins cable. Sorry, and with respect...that's just incorrect.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/electrical-engineering-and-the-high-end/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-350

Michael
Series II 5 string

coop · « **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2015, 08:46:41 AM »

Michael, I read the article and saw nothing there that refutes the idea that a well built $20 cable made with good quality components and good wire is somehow inferior to a $400 cable made with silver plated connectors, gluten-free solder, and any other woo-woo pseudoscientific advantage. This is especially true when running instrument or line level signals over relatively short distances (less than 30'). In my experience, also having been a musician for over 40 years, a professional sound engineer, a professional recording engineer, and ALEMBIC owner (three so far), no cable has impressed me to the point that I would pay more for it than I would for a good set of strings for my NS electric upright. When I worked at Walt Disney World as a FOH engineer and audio tech, we made our own instrument cables by hand. We used Switchcraft and Neutrik connectors, Belden wire, and whatever solder we had on hand. If you think Disney wouldn't use cables that made a difference no matter the price, you're insane.

To your point of why we play Alembics, it is an apples to oranges concept to bring into this discussion. Are you really suggesting that a cable has the same intricacies of design and construction as an instrument? That there are aesthetics involved in 1/4 connector design? That the choice of shrink-wrap insulation is as complex a decision as a Hippie Sandwich design? I certainly don't.

What you feel regarding the sound passed by particular cables is your own issue. Your choice of the word perceived is the key. Again, my point is not to say that anyone is correct or incorrect, but to point out that, from a position supporting measurable evidence over belief, there is no physical reason a $20 cable is inferior to a $400 cable. If you want to spend a car payment on a cable because you believe it makes your bass sound better, mazel tov! Personally, I'd rather buy two Mogami cables for $50/ea and use the extra $300 on rum and cigars.

5a_quilt_top · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:02:21 AM »

Other than Zaolla for acoustic guitars (and sometimes my Alembic basses), I use George L's and Bullet. All my pedal boards are wired with George L's (the thinner diameter) and I use the thicker diameter of both brands for my Instrument cords.

Both brands are DIY, reasonably priced and really easy to make - but the cable and jacks cannot be mixed between the brands.

To make a cord, cut the cable to the desired length with a SHARP blade and jam it into the barrel of the jack - either angled or straight. Tighten a small set screw on the straight jacks and screw a cap down on the angled jacks for ground and you're good to go.

Re: sound - IMO using either brand is like removing a thin blanket from your speaker cab. The sound is clearer when compared to typical instrument cables.

This may or may not be desirable for your purposes, but I base my tone and EQ settings on not having to add extra artificial high end to compensate for what a cord might not be giving me.