Author Topic: Saddle issue (Read 418 times)

rapidfirerob · « **on:** January 25, 2006, 01:25:07 PM »

I own a 1985 Spoiler. It is great, except I have had saddle issues since I bought it in '85. The original brass saddles cut strings. I then contacted Alembic who sent me aluminum which did the same thing. I then had graphite put over the aluminum which worked for a few years, and the issue returned. I then bought Graphtech saddles, which worked for a few years, and the problem returned. I contacted Alembic again and they had me install nickel over their brass saddles, and once again the problem returned. I now use GHS Brite Flat strings and have no problems. I played a Gibson EB3-L for years with no string breaking issues. I now own a Michael Kelly acoustic with no issues there either. I would like to be able to have more string choices. I play with my fingers and don't play in any way to cause string breakage. Any ideas? Thanks so much. Other than this issue, I love my Spoiler.

David Houck · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2006, 05:15:44 PM »

How long do the strings last before they break?

bob · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2006, 11:02:49 PM »

Just out of curiosity (probably won't help), may we see a couple of fairly close photos of the bridge area, including tailpiece, from both top and side?

And do all your strings break, or just a particular one or two?

bigredbass · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2006, 07:32:47 AM »

OK, my curiosity has gotten the better of me . . . let's see:

Orignal saddles . . . bang!
Aluminum OEM replacements . . . bang!
Graphite added . . . bang!
GraphTecs . . . bang!
Nickel added to the brass OEMs . . . bang!
GHS Brite Flats . . . so far so good . . .

And in most of these cases it would be OK for a while (a few years?) then it would start again. And you are not slamming this thing to break it from technique.

OK, WHERE are they breaking, at the exact point where they are in the slot in the saddle, where?

That would be my first question.

Bob, what if this guy is actually a gag post from The MythBusters?

J o e y

rapidfirerob · « **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2006, 11:56:50 AM »

When I had the breakage problem, it varied as to how long it would take before they broke. Usually it took a few months on average. I don't slap and pop. I play fusion style bass with my fingers. Whenever I used wound strings they would wear into the saddle which in turn would cut the string. It was usually D or G strings. The last go around a D broke. That is when I went to flat wounds and no longer break strings. I did visit Alembic once. I talked to various people regarding this issue, who were all very nice and helpful. The last time Alembic sent me a set of brass saddles which were setup on my bass, taken off, returned to Alembic who coated them with nickel and steel, I believe, and returned to me. This is the set still on there. After I broke the first D string, I switched to the aforementioned flatwounds.

bigredbass · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2006, 07:39:54 PM »

rfBob

OK, so they're breaking IN the saddle slots.

Virtually every brand of string has broken this same way, save for BriteFlats. All the different saddles have done the same thing. Yet it ranges from months to a few years before this happens once again.

Not having your Spoiler in front of me, I have a few more questions. Do you play with a medium or low action? A high action? Do you know what the UNfretted string clearance is where the strings pass over the 24th fret?

Have all the various saddles had carefully filed and radiused notches in them, no sharp edges, or in particular the ones you have now?

What scale length is your bass?

This has REALLY got me intrigued . . .

J o e y

bob · « **Reply #6 on:** February 01, 2006, 09:24:07 PM »

I'd still like to see some photos, mostly to determine whether the break angle over the bridge is unusually large. There is a lot of variation here, and if the tailpiece is unusually close to the bridge, and/or the bridge is quite high, that might have something to do with it.

adriaan · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2006, 02:18:46 AM »

Joey,

I was looking at the 24th fret clearance you mentioned in your famous setup post, because I thought it was perhaps a little on the high side - 3/16 and 1/8. You do say there that the numbers are more to give yourself a reference point, and work out your own preferences from that.

Well, I recently straightened the neck on my Spoiler - just 1/8 turn on both rods - and lowered the bridge to see how low it would go. The bass was already a joy to play, and is now even easier to play - with about 1/13 (2 mm) clearance at the 24th fret.

bigredbass · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2006, 09:36:21 AM »

Adriann

You'll find that when you get down to that last little bit where it's as low as can be had to suit your hands/playing style, you may fine tune the nut height or the relief or the bridge height ever so slightly as you 'perfect' that unique relationship between the three that just 'nails' your setup.

The REALLY interesting thing is your hands will just glom onto this and WILL tell your head what needs adjusting in those tiny, tiny increments.
I truly never expected that sensation.

J o e y

rapidfirerob · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2006, 06:53:54 PM »

It is a medium scale bass. I don't know the string clearance. The action is low. All the saddles were carefully setup by a technician. The grooves were worn into the saddles by the wound strings which in turn cut the strings. No sharp edges now. I remind you I never broke strings with my Gibson bass from 71-85 when the Alembic entered the picture.

bob · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:46:51 PM »

Hmm, this is still quite puzzling, and curious...

Clearly this is not a general problem with Alembics, or we would all know a great deal more about it. The other thing that confuses me is this: if the strings are of a strong enough material to wear grooves in the saddles, then it simply doesn't makes sense that those grooves would in turn be strong enough to break the strings.

Even more to the point, the object of the saddle is to keep the string from moving at that point, so if the saddle is fitted properly to the string, then the wear should not be caused by movement... and there isn't enough pressure involved here for strings to just sink into the brass or other materials.

I don't question the fact that you've had a (fairly unique) problem, but there still isn't enough information here for me to make any sense of it. I'm still wondering if you have an extreme break angle or something, but that's about the only theory that makes even a little bit of sense to me.
-Bob

David Houck · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2006, 07:11:16 AM »

Is the bridge sitting at an angle?

adriaan · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2006, 07:25:49 AM »

I've had the bridge on my Epic leaning backwards for as long as I can remember, that's 11 years now - and never had a string breaking on me.