Author Topic: Pickup height problems  (Read 678 times)

crgaston

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Pickup height problems
« on: March 03, 2006, 11:14:20 PM »
On the bass side of my neck pickup, I think the brass insert may be slightly stripped, as the screw looses it's grip well before the bass side is at a decent height.  Does anybody know the screw size?  I will take it to the hardware store tomorrow to try to find a longer one, but information is always good.

David Houck

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Pickup height problems
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2006, 06:46:46 AM »
This doesn't tell you the size, but I didn't realize the neck and bridge sizes were different.  I can't remember why at the moment, but I think you will need to look for a stainless steel replacement.  Some where around here I think there is a post explaining why.

David Houck

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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2006, 06:52:44 AM »
Found it.  Here is what Mica had to say about pickup screws:
 
Ferrous magnetic materials have the most affect on response ... That's why we .. don't use magnetic steel screws to anchor the pickup, we use stainless.

crgaston

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Pickup height problems
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2006, 09:38:46 AM »
Thanks, Dave!
They're 6-32's.
I ended up using the same length for the neck p/u as were on the bridge. Nothing was stripped, just too short for what I wanted.  I also went crazy and spent 1.26 to get brass screws all around.  I did it for looks, but am interested to hear that it may have sonic benefits as well.  If corrosion becomes a problem, I can always polish them up and apply a thin coat of clear fingernail polish to the screw heads.
 
http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/25827.html?1141493524

bigredbass

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Pickup height problems
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 04:25:06 PM »
I just love learning new things . . . stainless steel is NOT ferrous and not magnetic?
 
J o e y

David Houck

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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2006, 04:48:19 PM »
Ok, you piqued my interest.
 
Apparently, there are different types of Stainless Steel.  From Wikipedia:
 
When nickel, for instance, is added [to the alloy] the austenite structure of iron is stabilized. This crystal structure makes such steels non-magnetic and less brittle at low temperatures.  For higher hardness and strength, carbon is added. When subjected to adequate heat treatment these steels are used as razor blades, cutlery, tools etc. ... austenitic stainless steels comprise over 70% of total stainless steel production.

crgaston

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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2006, 05:00:39 PM »
OK, but then how do nickel steel alloy strings work if they're non-magnetic?  I assume it's a matter of degree?

David Houck

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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2006, 05:18:08 PM »
Without actually looking up the composition of any particular strings, I found this; again from Wikipedia:
 
MKM steel, an alloy containing nickel and aluminum, was developed in 1931 by the Japanese metallurgist Tokuhichi Mishima. While conducting research into the properties of nickel, Mishima discovered that a strongly magnetic steel could be created by adding aluminum to non-magnetic nickel steel.
 
MKM steel is tough and durable, inexpensive to produce, maintains strong magnetism when miniaturized and can produce a stable magnetic force in spite of temperature changes or vibration. These properties made MKM steel ideal for various applications in the rapidly growing electronics sector and allowed the miniaturization of components used in personal electronics and the communications, aviation and automobile industries.
 
Now I don't know if this is the type of steel used in Nickel Steel strings, but it does suggest a possible answer to your question.

crgaston

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Pickup height problems
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2006, 05:29:04 PM »
You are SO the man.

dfung60

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Pickup height problems
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2006, 11:19:09 PM »
With regard to nickel strings...
 
Stainless steel strings have stainless steel wraps around a high carbon steel core.  Your pickups will hear the core regardless of whether the wrap wire is ferrous at all.  You make stainless steel by creating an alloy of iron with chromium and nickel.  As you add more chromium and nickel, the alloy becomes less magnetic. The stainless steel in a kitchen knife is relatively low and is magnetic; as your kids know, the stainless on your refrigerator door is high in chromium content and non-magnetic.  You'd have to unwind a string and test the wrap wire, but I would guess that they're using a magnetic stainless there.
 
Usually, when you're talking about nickel strings, they are nickel plated stainless steel (this is like a D'Addario or DR), so the same behavior should be seen - you can definitely pick up the core wire, probably the wraps as well.
 
You can buy pure nickel wrapped strings (more common for guitar, but Fender makes them for bass) where the wrap wires are totally non-magnetic, but the core wire still is seen.
 
The core wire is a special super-strong, high-carbon steel that's made very precisely in size.  I was doing some research on this years ago and spoke to a nice fellow at the Mapes Wire Company who manufactures wire for most of the big string makers.  In addition to many sizes of musical wire, they also are the big military provider for the wire in wire-guided-missiles (this is a missile where guidance information is being sent through a wire which is trailed out behind the missile!).  
 
The reason for all this metallurgy is almost kind of silly.  Your frets are nickel-silver which is basically hardened nickel.  Back in the old days (the 60's) strings were pure nickel wrapped and softer than the frets.  When you played the strings, the frets would wear notches in the string which led to the string losing tone.  In the 70's, string makers (I think Rotosound was first) started making the wrap wires stainless steel which was harder than the nickel silver frets.  They didn't get cut up as much, so the strings lasted longer (of course, the fret didn't!).  Because the magnetic properties were different, it was a big change in tone, which was good for some and bad for others.
 
David Fung

lbpesq

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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2006, 06:48:59 AM »
as your kids know, the stainless on your refrigerator door is high in chromium content and non-magnetic
 
 
David:  You obviously haven't seen my refrigerator door.  In fact, neither have I lately as it is completely covered with MAGNETS!  If the above statement is true, what's keeping the refrigerator magnet industry going?
 
Bill, tgo
 
(Message edited by lbpesq on March 07, 2006)

olieoliver

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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2006, 07:03:18 AM »
I think my Refrigerator magnets are held on by the same vaccuum that sucks all the food out and keeps it empty! Of course it may be my daughters boyfriend that keeps it empty too. HmMMM, magnet fairies then?!!

David Houck

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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2006, 07:16:36 AM »
Bill; David's not talking about all refrigerator doors, just the real pretty stainless steel ones.  Amana for instance offers stainless steel as an option on some of their models.

lbpesq

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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2006, 07:58:46 AM »
You mean the Alembic of refrigerators?  Sorry, can't afford one of those. (Especially after doing the weekly food shopping last night).
 
Bill, tgo

dadabass2001

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Pickup height problems
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2006, 10:39:35 AM »
That's it! I want a custom Amana with ebony laminates, dual ice rods, low impedance freezer coils, and buckeye burl butter holder!
 
Mike
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