Author Topic: Fretless Fingerboard wear (Read 468 times)

keurosix · « **on:** August 23, 2006, 10:53:17 PM »

I have a minor annoyance on the fretless Epic 5 I recently accquired (S/N 96W10105USA). The neck has a low spot where the 2nd fret would be (If it had frets) across the G and D strings, and a little less pronounced on the A and E string. The B does not buzz. I have adjusted the Truss rods, nut and bridge height to where I like it, and have had to compromise the nut height and action a little higher than optimum to keep the buzzes from jumping out with a normal or light touch. A heavy touch will make them fly. This is not the preferred mwah classic fretless sound, rather a nasty fall in the pothole stinker. My question: there is such minor wear everywhere else on the fingerboard, what would be the best fix? I know that I have heard quoted that a fingerboard resurfacing is an option, but does that remove wood everywhere else to bring all surfaces down to the lowest spot? Or would one consider filling in the low spots with some magic mix of ebony dust and some kind of glue? I tried to search for posts regarding this, but haven't found one yet. For a 10 year old bass, she's held up really well. PS: My optimum action for a fretless is as low as it can go for a light to normal touch. I guess somewhere around a 1/16 at the octave (12th non fret). Any ideas?

bob · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2006, 11:14:46 PM »

I am really not an expert on this, but I'm still going to state that you do *not* want to try to fill in the valleys. Instead, you should sand down the mountains.

Alembic makes the fingerboard thicker than some others, so that you can re-level it a few times before having to worry about replacing it. From what you describe, it sounds minor enough that it should be easy to correct.

Yes, it would remove a little wood in all the high spots, but it takes a surprisingly small amount. If you have a local luthier you trust, it should be a pretty quick and simple (i.e. inexpensive) job.
-Bob

mica · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2006, 09:47:43 AM »

Getting the board to a good level state is the best option. If memory serves, this was a used purchase. Levelling will give you a clean slate and certainly able to enjoy the bass even more.

Bob is correct that the amount of wood that's removed is usually quite small and that the slab of Ebony is hefty enough to get you through several levellings, even more aggressive ones. A couple of hours of a skilled repairperson's time should be enough to get the board in good playing condition and get it setup again.

keurosix · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2006, 07:13:03 PM »

Thank you Mica, and Bob. I have located a good guitar luthier in CT from G-Guitars recommendation. It turns out I know him from playing many years ago. A smokin' 6 stringer! He can do the job easily. One minor question? What is the fingerboard radius? 12? Mike has a few standard radius blocks and I want him to match it with the correct one. I know he can most likely determine the radius when he looks at the bass. Thanks again.
Kris

David Houck · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2006, 07:25:59 PM »

The standard fingerboard radius is 12.

keurosix · « **Reply #5 on:** September 18, 2006, 09:10:50 AM »

Update:
My Luthier has a 2 week waiting period. I don?t think I want to wait.
I checked the Stewart MacDonald website and found various 12? Radius
sanding blocks that can do the job. They recommend 80 grit and 120 grit
Stikit 3M Goldfilm self-adhesive abrasive film applied to the sanding block to sand unfinished unfretted fingerboards. I think I am patient and witty enough to do this myself.
I have a few questions:
- Is there any technical bulletin outlining this procedure?
- Are 80 grit / 120 grit the correct abrasives to do this? My thought is 120 grit may be too course for a finishing grit? Would 0000 steel wool be a good finishing abrasive, or would I use additional grit papers, say 200 or 400 grit following the 80/120?
- Does the nut need to be removed for complete accurate flatness around the first fret area? This is an Alembic adjustable nut. Can the top be removed, and the bottom stay put?
- The wear seems minor, limited to roundwound string gouges, and a small hollow area near the second fret. A few Luthiers I talked to say that depending on the wear, they would pre-fill the hollow spot with a mix of crazyglue and Ebony dust. Should I pursue this, or just try to remove the majority of high wood to come down to the low area? I think the hollow spot is not much deeper than 0.020? or so, just noticeable by deliberate eye, but capable of creating a buzz on the string. (Not the ?buzz? I want)
- One Luthier said that this job could be a 2 hour or more job depending on if the buzz moves up the neck during sanding. He said then he would have to do more work to ?Chase the buzz? and finally eliminate it. This cost would equal more or less the cost of the sanding blocks and paper if I buy them and do it myself.
Any opinions would be of great help.

Thank You in advance
Kris

dfung60 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 18, 2006, 12:36:50 PM »

Unless you're really very comfortable doing precision woodworking, I would let a pro you trust do it. You'll need more gear that just a sanding block and sandpaper - you would normally want to have a long high-precision straightedge, and you'll need to have an appropriate workstand to hold the instrument as well. This is all stuff that will be expensive if you're not regularly doing this kind of work. Just at a glance, the gear you mentioned at Stew-Mac looks like it will be upwards of $200 and that's without the other stuff that you will need.

You can check out a book like the Erlewine repair book to see what's involved in levelling the fretboard. He would probably rough the pits out with a scraper or file, the restore the radius using a sanding block. You start with rough grits which will cut more quickly, then switch to finer and finer grits until you get to the surface you desire. 400 or 800 is probably where you need to end up with sandpaper.

This is all more difficult with a through-body instrument as you have to deal with the body as well as fully supporting the neck. You'll probably want to pull the neck pickup, mask the body, etc.

I think it's normal for fretless basses to have a bit of a ramp in the nut area to make fingering in the low range easier, but don't know how many frets up that is extended. If you were to cut the fingerboard comletely level to the nut, you'll probably find that it's hard to finger the low range, even when the strings pull the neck into relief.

I'm all for people learning to do maintainance on their instruments, but if you haven't done this before or want to go through this first with a lesser bass, I really wouldn't start on your Alembic.

bigredbass · « **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2006, 04:31:06 PM »

This is one of those things in life where you've got one chance to get it right . . . and a hundred ways to wreck your axe! If you know or can find a SERIOUSLY qualified guitar tech to do this, PAY HIM and enjoy it later. You don't want to apprentice this job on your own axe.

J o e y

hieronymous · « **Reply #8 on:** September 18, 2006, 05:27:42 PM »

Two weeks actually doesn't seem that bad - I've known luthiers with 1 month + waiting lists!

lbpesq · « **Reply #9 on:** September 19, 2006, 07:13:13 AM »

Geez, two week wait - 1 month +!! I feel like I'm hearing people complain about the price of gas, saying I'm paying $.75 a gallon - oh yea?, that's nothing, I'm paying a dollar!! Every luthier I've used takes A LOT LONGER than that. My Fernandes/Alembic took 2 years. And my Martin (supposedly) goes in at the beginning of October (appointment made last July). Who knows how long that's going to take!

Bill, tgo

hieronymous · « **Reply #10 on:** September 19, 2006, 07:21:55 AM »

No Bill, you're right - my 1 month + is probably closer to 5-6 months, but it was a long time ago and my memory is faulty and I didn't want to exaggerate! Guess I went too far in the other direction...

811952 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 21, 2006, 07:28:03 AM »

Like Bill said, *years* of waiting isn't uncommon, but nearly always worth it. If you can get in in a couple of weeks, then by all means wait and have the job done well. Perhaps he'll let you watch and/or help, so you'll know how to do this thing that you'll probably never need to have done again.

Sanding a fretboard can make a nice instrument completely unplayable if you don't get it all exactly right, and a luthier uses a few tricks that aren't obvious to the rest of us but are inclined (no pun intended) to make a positive outcome nearly guaranteed. That said, working with wood is like being a test-pilot every time, because no two pieces behave the same (think Direwolf)...

John

keurosix · « **Reply #12 on:** September 21, 2006, 08:23:07 PM »

OK Fellas,
You win... I dropped off the guitar at my Luthier's today. He said he'll try to get it to me in less than 2 weeks. I came home and discovered the UPS box with the AE-2 upgrade had arrived. I stored it next to the FretFX red LED array I ordered too. As soon as I get it back from the shop, I'll have her completely tricked out. I'll post some picks at that time. That's why I was a little anxious to get the fingerboard done.
Thanks to all for the advice.
Kris

bob · « **Reply #13 on:** September 21, 2006, 09:05:23 PM »

Actually, I think you win - good call.

Patience seems to be eternally underrated.

keurosix · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2006, 07:50:42 PM »

I got my Epic back and only had to wait about a week. The fingerboard is perfect, and she plays superbly! I am a very happy camper. Thanks guys for convincing me to be patient. Good call!
Kris