Author Topic: Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing  (Read 775 times)

ajdover

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2007, 02:40:46 PM »
Bill,
 
    Yes, an ebony board, like all my Alembics.  I'm not thrilled about having to do a heat bend, but if I want to play this instrument it looks like that's what I'm going to have to do.  I'm going to see if I can get it done locally.  If not, out to Santa Rosa it goes.  It won't be cheap, but it's either that or it ends up like Roger's - sitting on a stand.  And I don't want to do that, of course.
 
Alan

lbpesq

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2007, 02:57:11 PM »
Alan:
 
I discussed heat bends with James from Alembic at a July 4th party where my band played.  It sounds very unobtrusive as he described it.  He clamps the instrument so there is some pressure on the neck to bow.  Then he uses a hairdryer type device (or maybe even a hairdryer, it was a party after all where we had this discussion - lol), and stands there blowing hot air back and forth for 15 or 20 minutes, as I recall, then checks it out.  Doesn't sound too scary to me.
 
Bill, tgo

ajdover

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2007, 03:58:43 PM »
Well, it's not so much the scary part as it is I have to send it out - wish I lived closer.  I'll try to find someone local, but failing that I don't have much of a choice.  It's a great instrument, beautiful, well built, and I want to play it.  As it is now it is unplayable for me, regardless of string gauge and set up.
 
Alan

chuck

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2007, 04:18:14 PM »
Alan  
A few minutes ago I decided to measure the core diameter of several sets of used strings.
I measured the E string only.The results may be the awnser to your problem.
Using a good quality micrometer I found three brands with a core diameter of .025.
Checking a set of DR's I found the core dia.to be .022, thats a reduction of 12% in tension.
Thats a lot.
The outside diameter on all E strings was .105. Just a thought.
 
Chuck
 
(Message edited by chuck on July 14, 2007)
 
(Message edited by chuck on July 14, 2007)

ajdover

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2007, 04:46:59 PM »
Chuck,
 
    Do you have a measurement for the core of an Alembic .45-.105 set?  That would give us some reference as this is what it came with.
 
Thanks,
 
Alan

chuck

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2007, 05:55:20 PM »
Alan,
I do not have any alembic strings.
If you have an old set bring it with you next saturday and I'll bring the micrometer.
 
Chuck
 
(Message edited by chuck on July 14, 2007)

ajdover

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2007, 06:18:18 PM »
Chuck,
 
   My name is Alan.  Not trying to be a pain, but that's my name, for better or worse! ;-)
 
Alan

chuck

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2007, 06:33:49 PM »
Sorry Alan,my mistake,this old brain do'nt work right all the time.
 
Chuck

bsee

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2007, 06:48:19 PM »
Alan,  
 
If Bill's recollection on the procedure is correct, you may be able to tune up another step or two to create some forward bend and apply the hair dryer yourself.  I would seriously give Alembic a call and see if you can have a virtual pow-wow with James to get the straight scoop.
 
Good luck, and maybe this is a solution for all DW owners?
 
-bob

David Houck

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2007, 09:18:30 PM »
I'm wondering what effect the hairdryer has on the finish.

David Houck

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2007, 09:29:28 PM »
Here is a thread that might be helpful; includes two differing opinions from highly regarded members.

olieoliver

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2007, 04:37:18 PM »
I've a thought on this. Does the DW stay in the case most of the time or does it come out of the case on a daily basis?
   The reason I ask is that I usually keep my Alembics in the cases unless I am playing them. All my other basses hang on the wall in my music room. I hadn?t played the S-2 in about 3 weeks (forgive me Lord) and I noticed yesterday when I got it out that the neck was darn near straight no relief at all.  
   Needless to say I had plenty of fret buzz going on. Well I didn?t do any adjustments to the truss rods but I did leave it out on a stand over night and I noticed today that the neck had a desirable amount of relief and all fret buzz was gone.  
   So I assume that the downward pressure on the neck from the padding in the case had something to do with this. I?ve never had this happen on any of my axes before but I?ve also never left one in a case this long before either.  
 
 
Something to ponder,
Olie

bsee

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2007, 04:41:42 PM »
Mine are usually standing up in the cases, but I see your point.  If nothing supports the headstock or neck near the nut, there could be some bend pressure there.

bigredbass

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2007, 07:55:04 PM »
Without the bass here, take this that I'm thinking out loud, OK?  
 
Typically, bass buzzes solely in the deep end of the neck means the neck is TOO straight, while buzzing only up near the body end of the neck usually means too much relief.
 
Overlay this that straightening the neck lowers the strings, and adding relief raises the strings:  Imagine as you tighten the truss rod, the head/nut 'sinks' relative to the body, and rises as you let more relief back in.
 
Plus the closer you get to where the bass starts buzzing badly, it only takes a little too much to cross that line.
 
I shoot for dead straight and then let enough relief back in to where I can just feel a little room to breathe under my hands, so we are probably looking for about the same feel, not 'behind the frets'.  I'll settle for a only a little random buzz here and there occasionally as long as it doesn't go through to the amp, and over a few weeks I'll tune that out.  And certainly, out of my five basses, no two are alike, and it's just the way life is that some will just adjust lower than others without complaint.  
 
Two things stand out to me:
 
1) You bought it used and it still had the ALEMBIC strings.  As they're not commonly available around the country, IF they were the strings it came with and it's in mint shape the bass MUST have sat in the case most of the time and probably flat, tuning-wise.
 
2) Tuning UP cured it:  More tension gave more relief and it subsided . . .  
 
IF it were me, I'd try one more thing I learned from the Dan Erlwewine book:
 
Unstring it.  Let the truss rods completely loose.  Clamp the neck/fingerboard to a straight board (be sure and pad the board and clamps, a clean 2x4 cut to the length of the fingerboard works fine).  Once you're satisfied all 24 frets are touching the board (you can check this with the short side of a framing square, and use a 6 or shorter metal rule to check two or three frets at a time to eliminate any high frets), tighten both nuts to snug and release the clamps.
 
You've now got a straight fingerboard 'unloaded' and you've probably bought more 'purchase' for your truss rod nuts.  Truss rod nuts are for fine tuning, you did the 'heavy lifting' with the board and clamps.  Now re-string let her sit overnight or a few days and start over.
 
Of course if that STILL won't do it, you obviously know where to go. It's problematic in that truss rods have the least effect on the very end of the fingerboard towards the head, generally. But maybe this treatment will help you skip surgery!
 
Glad you're home!
 
J o e y

lbpesq

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Set Up Problem on Dragon Wing
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2007, 08:05:17 AM »
Joey:
 
I don't get it.  It sounds like what you are saying is that if your neck is straight - no relief - with the truss rods completely loose, you should clamp a 2 x 4 to the straight neck, then tighten the truss rods to snug and take the 2 x 4 off.  If I'm getting this right I don't see how this can possibly have any effect whatsoever on the lack of neck relief.  What am I missing?
 
Bill, tgo