Author Topic: Another daft question  (Read 564 times)

georgie_boy

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Another daft question
« on: September 20, 2009, 05:06:43 AM »
I've just become concerned about something on my DS5 that never bothered me before,   but now......
I notice that on mine (a 240 volt option for the UK) there is no Earth(ground) wire!!
Should there be one???
Am I in danger of being electrocuted here??
 
I'm now very concerned!
If this is the normal procedure, why is there no Earth lead???
Some of you will no doubt notice, that I know Jack S. about electronics.
 
George

john_judge

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Another daft question
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2009, 08:02:34 AM »
I don't like giving this advice but I am afraid that your curiosity might push you forward to touch something you are not aware of so I will start off with DANGER DANGER DANGER First I say take it to a service tech or call the company, but if you are wanting to know more, proceed  to read on,
There can  be other means of grounding, such as a grounding plate or you might see a bare copper wire or green wire, can be Red, Black White and copper or you might just see Red, Black and White with a grounding plate installed,  But use extreme caution, if you decide to go poking around in there, be sure to KEEP ONE HAND IN YOUR POCKET, preferable back pocket at all times so your body doesn't complete a circuit.
 
 Basically everything electrical is wired for 240, we here in America just half stepped off the transformer thus we get 120 volts, on 240 you can touch the red, touch the black, even the red and black together and basically nothing, but if you hold the WHITE NEUTRAL(DANGER) wire and touch any other color you will face severe electrical shock or even death so stay away from it is the best advice I can give you,  but if you must look around to clear your uncertain feelings, do it unplugged and see if you see there's wires passing through a plated surface first and look for a green or plain copper in the area, just remember keep one hand in your pocket , I mean don't even touch the chassis or you could become the ground wire, even while it is unplugged because unless you have a way to discharge a Capacitor it can hold charge for days and ZAPP! YOU CAN STILL GET SHOCKED even unplugged. look first at the actual cable coming in from the plug and see how many wires there are then trace from there to the transformer and follow with your eyes to see where they go, Please USE EXTREME CAUTION I can't express this enough and have a friend present with you, it's a great learning experience but you have to respect the power you are dealing with at all times, you can email direct if you need further assistance regarding your findings,  
good luck and always remember when dealing with electricity anything with 240 transformers and tube circuits will take you from this world fast if you touch the wrong things in there and we don't want to start wondering where Georgie boy is that we haven't seen him post in a while stuff!

terryc

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Another daft question
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2009, 01:18:36 PM »
It may be double insulated.. you will find that power tools are.
When you say there is no earth georgie, if you are looking for a yellow/green it may be different for the US, if there is only a two core cable going to the mains then it must be double insulated, if there is three then trace it back to the power unit.
Note that lights in the UK only require the brown and blue although new regs indicate that even if it is a plastic fitting it must have an earth lug.
I very much doubt Alembic would not miss out on this..if you want to be safe I would use a RCB unit..these are a vital addition to your gig bag.
If you want to earth the power unit then you would have to replace the flex with correct rated wire and attach the earth to a washer lug which is then bolted to the chassis.
I always use my own RCB when playing gigs..many years ago I did get the mic to guitar shock.
In retrospect, Alembics don't have the bridge with an earth wire as passives do so you would be safe anyway.
John..oh capacitors, I was repairing a mate's amp..an old one and forgot to discharge the smoothing caps..give me a fair old tingle although modern amps now have an 'auto discharge' system.

john_judge

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Another daft question
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2009, 02:37:36 PM »
Yeah Terry  back in the day the Harry Joyce hand wired DR203 (200 watt) Hiwatt about lived up to it's name and slung my arm about around to my back! thus was my first dealing with living Capacitor's Lol!

georgie_boy

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Another daft question
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 04:41:51 AM »
Hell!
Now I'm really worried!
A couple of years ago...well about 5 actually, my ex accidently (or on purpose!   bitch!) jammed the couch against the 5 pin lead on the DS5, and dislodged the female connector.
I sent it to probably the best Alembic tech in the UK.... Chris Ward at the Bass Centre in London,(where I bought the bass 9 years ago) and he fixed it up a treat!
He even put a thermal cutout in the unit just in case, as he said the newer ones had this.he did it FOC.
He NEVER mentioned anything about a ground system....there are just 2 wires from the plug!.so I would assume that he knows exactly what he is doing.....so much so, that I asked him to make me a stereo to mono 1/4  lead as a stand by.
When I checked this a couple of years ago......he had even fiitted the 2 X 20k resistors to it!!
He knows his stuff!
I've used the bass and the power supply on many occassins, but now................I'm getting a bit scared!
Mica........any ideas????
 
John J.    Many many thanks for your help .and you Terry.........but, as I stated at the start, I know JS about electricity.
I'll try to call Chris Ward, but I know he only works part time now.
 
Thanks again guys.........all help and advice welcome here.....I'm too young to die!!
 
George
 
(Message edited by georgie_boy on September 21, 2009)

georgie_boy

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Another daft question
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 05:09:19 AM »
Well......
Just phoned Chris Ward at the Bass Centre.
He said..........as long as the amplifier is earthed, then no problem. It seems that the 5 pin cable has an earth, and the leads from the output of the DS5 are also earthed. He also said, that I could add an earth wire if I wanted, but that might induce an earth loop and cause hum........all double Dutch to me (need Adriaan or FC  here).
I'd just like some total reassurance here from anyone eg the Mothership although I've total faith in Chris Ward!
Having faith, (and ending up stuck to the ceiling.........or worse) is all well and good, but I just want to be sure!!!
 
george

georgie_boy

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Another daft question
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 05:16:50 AM »
Terry...what's a RCB??
Where can I get one???
How would I fit it to my DS5??
Sorry for being a pain in the ass guys, but I'm a worrier!

adriaan

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Another daft question
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2009, 05:28:49 AM »
George - I can only add some triple Dutch into the mixture. But as you know I can't help myself, so here I go ...
 
RCB probably stands for Residual Current Breaker aka Device. It immediately cuts off the current if you're touching a live wire whilst connected to the ground, to prevent you from getting executed.

georgie_boy

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Another daft question
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2009, 05:48:07 AM »
Well......
Just phoned Chris Ward at the Bass Centre.
He said..........as long as the amplifier is earthed, then no problem. It seems that the 5 pin cable has an earth, and the leads from the output of the DS5 are also earthed. He also said, that I could add an earth wire if I wanted, but that might induce an earth loop and cause hum........all double Dutch to me (need Adriaan or FC  here).
I'd just like some total reassurance here from anyone eg the Mothership although I've total faith in Chris Ward!
Having faith, (and ending up stuck to the ceiling.........or worse) is all well and good, but I just want to be sure!!!
 
george

georgie_boy

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Another daft question
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 05:53:53 AM »
OOOPSS!!
Double post
Sorry

georgie_boy

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Another daft question
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 06:05:48 AM »
Thanks Adriaan!!
So nice to know that we all help each other !
I'm still scared!!........No gigs for the S1 until I get to the bottom of this!..Yet.I've gigged her for nearly 9 years!!??
So.....Where can I buy this device??
Will it prevent my little fat body from becoming carbon??
Used to be the case, a lot of years ago, when a Carbon style fuse was installed in the line
PLEASE help.........I'm so scared of electricity/glass/heights.
Some Psychologist eh????
 
George
 
George

adriaan

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Another daft question
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 06:15:37 AM »
George, just read the Wikipedia link and chill out.

georgie_boy

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Another daft question
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 06:27:23 AM »
I'll do my best Adriaan
I'm just such a wimp!!

pacificshine

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Another daft question
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 09:43:01 PM »
The DS5 schematic (1989) shows a 2 wire circuit on the AC side (going to the wall) but the unit I have has a third (ground) wire and I can't tell if it's the original power cord.  This box recently came back from Australia so maybe they changed its power cord there.  I think either way is OK since the box is grounded through the 5 pin plug. I also have a newer rack mount power supply which is grounded and both units don't cause a ground loop, so if it makes you feel better you can have the cord changed without adding any new problems.

essenceman

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Another daft question
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2009, 02:15:17 AM »
Hi George,
 
No problem, mate. You ought to be able to buy one at B&Q or Maplins - this would be one to plug into the wall and then plug your 4-way block (or whatever you use) into that. Alternatively, following this link will show you where you can buy a RCD to replace the plug on your 4-way block.
 
Cheers
Rob
1997 Bocate Essence 5 string