Author Topic: Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?  (Read 554 times)

rustyg61

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Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2015, 09:04:07 PM »
My setup is similar to Davehouck's, I go stereo out of my DS-5R into separate channels on My F-2B so each pickup has it's own channel for EQ, but then I take the combined (mix) out of the F-2B into my SF-2 also set to mono with one channel for lows & one for mid/highs. The SF-2 enhances the overall sound of both pickups blended. I also run my mono SCSD through one channel of the F-2B, so this setup works with both basses. The output of the SF-2 goes to one channel on a QSC GX7 amp then into either an Accugroove Wedgie or El Whappo cabinet depending on the size of the venue. Giving each pickup it's own channel gives a pseudo stereo effect without having to haul 2 separate cabinets. I have gone full stereo with 2 cabinets & the sound is mind blowing, but I can get a really amazing sound with one cabinet too & use the same rig for my Series II & SCSD bass. Using a full stereo rig would require lots of adjustment when I switch to my SCSD, my current setup doesn't require any adjustment other than plugging in the 1/4 cable when I play the SCSD. As was mentioned earlier, I too do not use 100% volume on the bridge pickup. I use it to give me the edge I want to color the overall tone. Most of the time it is at 60 - 75% of the neck pickup level.
Rusty
2011 SCSD
2014 "Blue Orca" Series II Europa
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_blueorca.html

5a_quilt_top

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Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2015, 11:47:04 AM »
I recently took Framboise to her first public rehearsal. Since it was going to be a low-volume event in someone's house, I elected keep it simple to go mono using my little AER  Amp One combo.
 
It sounded pretty darn good - with compliments on the bass tone from all involved.
 
About half way through the session, I mentioned to the guitarist that the bass has stereo capability and he immediately requested  a demonstration.
 
The only amp available to accommodate the request was a 30 watt 2x12 Marshall Bluesbreaker tube-powered combo, so I ran the bass PU to the AER and the treble PU to the Marshall and hoped for the best.
 
It sounded pretty darn good!
 
Everyone remarked that the stereo bass sound was much fuller and more dynamic with the Marshall adding some crispness to the high end that allowed the bass tone to cut through the mix better than when in mono mode.
 
In this case, the two amps in use were quite different, but through the use of the bass and treble volume and tone controls I was able to achieve a nice overall tonal blend.

smuprof

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Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2015, 09:22:35 AM »
So I've had a bit of fun searching for that ultimate tone, i.e. hearing all of the nuances possible from my SII.  The rig (dubbed the fracking rig by my fellow Alembicians at the recent Dallas gathering) is true stereo all the way through the sub-woofers.  
 
The front end is an F2-B, which then runs through BBE's Maxcom (stereo compressor and sonic maximizer in one), and then into an ELF-1 (the original which is two independent channels and outputs for both highs and lows) with the upper frequencies going to a pair of Eden D210-XST cabinets (which are extremely efficient and good down to 30 Hz) and the lower frequencies going to a pair of Bag End S18s (the same cabinets the ELF-1 was tested with).  The ELF sends only 100 Hz and below to the 18s, which allows the Eden cabinets to loaf without trying hard at 100 Hz and up.  Two Mackie stereo power amps with the older, large toroidal transformers send about 300 watts @ 8 ohms each to the Edens and 600 watts @ 8 ohms each to the Bag Ends.
 
So essentially each pick up has a bi-amped ELF system with 2 10s and the 18.  (you could actually run two basses mono into each input in the F2-B and have two completely independent bi-amped bass rigs).
 
But here's what's interesting:  simply adjusting the relative volume controls on the power amps provides an amazing (to my ears) tonal palatte.  In essence you're simply adjusting the treble and bass on each pick-up, but it's feels more like a mix than a trade-off in adjusting frequencies, i.e. everything is 100% - you just choose how much of each you want.  And of course you can then paint each source to taste with the SII filters and the F2-B.
 
Of course there are lots of variations possible with this rig.  In addition to the two separate mono rigs, you can sum the subs and wind up with 2500 watts driving them, or run the entire thing mono for extra wattage in the high end as well, or go stereo with the Edens without the ELF rack, or just use a single Eden cabinet for a smaller rig.  Disclaimer here:  I am not dragging all of this around to play currently and don't know that I would other than for special occasions.  
 
While it's hard to imagine your Alembic sounding better, as others have noted, hearing it in full stereo is a special treat.

ed_zeppelin

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Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2015, 05:43:38 AM »
The lower the frequency, the more omnidirectional, which is why home systems usually have one subwoofer you can stick behind the couch. High frequencies are not only increasingly directional, but they define the individual characteristics of the instrument.  
 
If you filter out the upper harmonics, it's nearly impossible to distinguish between a flute and a violin playing the same notes, for instance. Bass frequencies provide the power, high frequencies define.
 
That's why bass sounds odd in stereo until you get used to it.  
 
Add to that the fact that bass sound waves are very large (and we're usually pretty close to our amps) and unless you've got some kind of hairy monitoring going on, we're in precisely the wrong place to judge how our rigs actually sound to an audience.
 
I have someone else play my bass while I set the sound on my amps, making a trip or two out into the hinterlands to find the room boom, then swap places to fine tune the controls on the bass itself.
 
Tom Dowd said that it's easier to find what sounds like crap and filter it out than to enhance the good stuff. Saves a lot of time, too. On a parametric EQ, jack the level and sweep through the frequencies, and the crap jumps right out, believe me. Then dial down the level until it goes away.
 
I think of my Series 1 as two overlapping systems with individual controls, rather than stereo, per se. Makes it a lot easier to visualize the sound when setting up.
 
I rewired the 1/4 jack on my to mono, for gigs where I only need one amp, and to send a summed signal through a direct box into the board.  
 
I use the 5-pin for stereo, either through two amps or to two channels on the board (I know it sounds weird, but panning too hard yanks the balls right out of the bass.)
 
Bass frequencies use over 90% of your amp's power, simply because it takes a lot of power to move a lot of air. The advantage is that you can pretty much set it and forget it.
 
I run the bridge pickup (treble) into two small cabs on either side of the stage, on stands. (A Carvin Stagemate and its extension, 100 watts per cab.)
 
The neck pickup goes into a Carvin 600-watt amp with 1-18 and 4-10 cabs.  
 
Room boom is generally in the 250-500k zone, because most of the instruments share that frequency range. It's the bassist's playground, because between the bass drum(s) and bass, it's where the band's overall attack comes from. Too much 250k and it gets muddy, though.
 
Once I set up the bass (bridge pickup) to provide the thump, I don't touch it.  
 
I hope some of this helps. Stereo is terrific, as long as you get used to the idea that onstage, you're in a lousy place to judge your own sound. Leave that knob alone, son.
 
(Message edited by Ed_zeppelin on July 26, 2015)

mtjam

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Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2015, 07:15:37 AM »
You're definitely right about us being in a lousy place to judge our sound. I usually find myself standing no more than 3 feet in front of my amp while I'm performing, due to the small venues I often play. I do try to walk out farther sometimes to hear what I truly sound like at a distance. I have learned in the last few years the limitless ways to optimize bass sound while using Alembic basses.
 
On a side note, I play with a few guys who think that they can set their sound for the PA and guitar in a practice room and that will apply anywhere we play (I know better!). Don't get me started on that... : )
 
I am continuing my Series stereo experiments, and I appreciate all of the advice I'm getting here! Thanks!

ed_zeppelin

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Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2015, 11:28:43 AM »
>>>I play with a few guys who think that they can set their sound for the PA and guitar in a practice room and that will apply anywhere we play (I know better!)
 
Oh what the hell. That guitarist joke reminded me of this one:
 
Q: how many bassists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: one! Five! One! Five! One! Five! One! Five! One! Five! ...

ed_zeppelin

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Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2015, 12:15:56 PM »
By the way, here's those Carvin Stagemate cabs I run my Series 1 bridge pickup into:  

  (That ain't me. It's just the only pic I could find of a Stagemate and extension cab on stands, to give an idea of the size.)   Because the higher frequencies dont require nearly as much power and the higher the frequency the more directional the sound is, this - and a big, nasty amp for the neck pickup - is all I need to "top off" the full potential of the Series sound. (Plus, it's battery powered and has built-in 4-channel mixer with switchable digital effects.)  


hieronymous

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Anyone here prefer running mono over stereo with a Series bass?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2015, 03:02:53 PM »
This has been a great thread - lots of ideas, information & inspiration!
 
I fantasize about it sometimes, but haven't tried it yet. Partly because of the setup time - during rehearsal I would set up a portable recording rig in addition to my rig, and at the only 2 live shows we played, the situation was rushed and SIMPLE IS BEST seemed the best way to go. Actually, I also had my Moog Taurus 3 bass pedals to set up too.
 
Another obstacle for me is: I prefer to always play with a compressor running, as well as other effects (distortion, octave & volume boost being the main ones). If I were to go stereo, then either one channel would have to be clean, or set up two effects chains.  
 
Another issue is, I'm not sure having the two pickups run separately is the best solution for me. It depends on the instrument in question. If instruments are going to be switched then that's an issue too. Ultimately, mono gives me the most flexibility.
 
HOWEVER, I still fantasize about trying it with my GK MB-112 II for the low end and Phil Jones Bass Suitcase (w/4 5 speakers) for the high end. The bass would either be my 5-string Stanley Clarke Signature Squared or my Guild M-85 II when it is finally Alembicized. I sometimes think about going through my F-2B & then SF-2, then into the amps, using the SF-2 on low pass through the GK, relegating it to just lows below a certain frequency, and the other channel high pass in the other direction - is it wasteful to use the SF-2 simply as a crossover? I'm sure I could get away without it, simply use the graphic EQ on the PJB if there were any issues. OK, you have me convinced, one of these days I'm going to give it a try! Maybe I could get it together before the upcoming NorCal Gathering...
 
(Message edited by hieronymous on July 28, 2015)