Is this the right way to hear how the wood contributes to the sound?

[jazzyvee]

I have a Europa 5 with standard electronics, mahogany body and bocate top. I also have an Europa 5 with Signature electronics, maple body and maple top.Both have maple and purpleheart neck laminates although the Standard Europa has a wider neck and thicker purpleheart lams.  
 
Now I want to compare both basses to see if the basic differences in sound are attributed to the woods used in construction.  
 
So, since they also have the same pickups,  if I set the volumes on both to max, pickup blends in the mid position q-switches set to off and all filters fully open on max. ( also on the standard Europa, the quick change switches in neutral mid position) , would I be right in thinking that any difference in the sound coming from each bass should be a result of the woods used in construction and not the electronics packages?
 
 
Jazzyvee

[slawie]

What about a struck tuning fork placed in places around the neck and body (the basses, not yours)
The differences in tonewoods may be picked up with no influence by the electronics.
If you want to borrow a vibration meter let me know.
 
slawie

[terryc]

What about recording them onto your PC and using SoundForge or some other audio software which has a frequency analyser??

[sonicus]

That is an interesting concept Terryc. One could select various standard test tone frequencies 20hz, 40hz, 80hz,  for an isolated test of woods reponse.  Using a realtime analyzer one could find variables of amplitude of the resonance. In the case of a completed instrument  the pickups of the bass's could be used  but in a isolated test of  woods true response the tricky part might be the design of the transducers for the transmission and pickup of the test tones . It  might be prudent to do the testing in an anechoic chamber as well.
 
(Message edited by sonicus on October 10, 2010)

[adriaan]

Jazzy, I think you have the right idea to do this comparison, certainly in a practical sense (seeing that anechoic chambers are not to be found in your average garden shed). My suggestion would be to compare not with the blend in the middle, but turned fully to neck or bridge, and to match the output levels.
 
Put on fresh sets of the exact same type of string, and make some recordings!

[sonicus]

I think adriaan is right from a practical perspective. I am Sorry if I took it to far.

[jazzyvee]

Actually I was thinking more in terms of a laymans test. Based on what I can hear rather than scientifically testing the differences. Recording seems a good idea too. I just wondered if in principle that would be a simple way to compare basses. The basses in question do sound radically different but I'm not sure what is causing the difference, pickups or wood and yes I guess strings are important too.
 
Maybe I will wait till the strings need changing before doing a test with new strings on both basses.
 
 
Jazzyvee

[sonicus]

Jazzyvee,    None of the instruments that you are comparing have sustain blocks mounted under the bridge ; is that correct ?

[lbpesq]

I like the tuning fork idea.  Simple and takes the electronics completely out of the equation.
 
Bill,tgo

[bigredbass]

I have two axes with similar recipes:
 
The Bigredbass is quilt maple over mahogany wings, with the deluxe (three purpleheart stripes in maple) laminates, running FatBoys in a Spoiler cirduit.  The Custom Elan is flame maple over ash wings, and a maple center with cherry pinstripes, running PJ Activators and Signature electronics.
 
Despite the pickup/circuit difference, the Elan has that all-white-wood 'quack', that bark in the low mids, very Fender-ish.  Interestingly, it has an amazing low C and D, lots of very deep presence.  The Bigredbass is noticeably smoother sounding, I'm sure because of the mahogany.  The FatBoys can get quite aggressive, but overall it's a little more work to get that sound out of it.
 
J o e y

[crobbins]

Set the basses up exactly the same, and record the same bassline with each bass. Then listen back....

[jazzyvee]

Maybe I should have elaborated more on this thread at the start. The reason I'm asking about hearing the wood is because I'm again at the point where I'm considering having a series bass built.  I read here often that they sound great.  But if I can't attribute the sound I'm hearing to the wood used in construction of my existing basses then I probably won't hear it on a new bass and can save a lot of money having a series bass built by not choosing specific tone woods.
 
 
Crobbins, that's exactly what I'm asking for guidance to help me achieve. However, since both basses have different electronics installed, my enquiry is simply to find out if there are positions the controls can be set to so that I am setting up the basses exactly the same.
 
Then i can record/listen back and have some understanding of where the difference in sound is coming from
 
If there is no Exactly the same position for setting the electronics then ok, I still have  two different sounding basses but where that difference is coming from would be less easy for me to ascertain. And the difference due to the wood component only would again be less easy for me to isolate.
 
I'm sure many of the more experienced alembic players would be able to attribute what they are hearing to properties of the woods used in construction and not electronics but I have not reached that point yet.
 
Sonicus, both basses have sustain blocks.
 
Within the criteria I have set myself for deciding about a series build is that  I will only go down the series route for a new build if I am going to hear an obvious, dramatic and useable difference in the sound of a series bass compared to a non series bass. Any tonal options should be immediately and clearly audible as I don't have the luxury of funding expensive subtleties. So to help me decide I'm trying to find as much as I can about the variables in the equation that make up the sound to ensure I can get the bass I think I would like and not make expensive additions for tonal qualities I am unable to quantify.
 
I'm on a roll here. hahaha
I went to bass day uk the other day and made a point of listening to many basses there and although they were all different manufacturers and different woods, pickups and hardware there was only one company there who had anything that sounded dramatically different to the others. That was a small company in Scotland who use filters in their basses. So since filters are something I'm getting familiar with It made me again think about whether the filters allow the tonal properties of the woods to be more evident than regular tone controls?
 
Gasp this sounds like I've hijacked my own thread so I may report myself to Dave.... hahaha
 
 
Jazzyvee

[adriaan]

Once you start blending/adding the signals from two pickups, you'll start getting all kinds of coloration as a result of combining those two sources. So it is easier if you focus on one pickup at a time.
 
For this purpose, a pickup selector switch is the ideal setup --- not that I'd want to trade the blend on my Spoiler back for the switch, but that's another matter. I do notice that the sound seems to clean up somewhat when I turn the blend fully to one pickup on my Spoiler (2 preamps) but perhaps a little less so on my Epic (single preamp).
 
Make sure the clearance of the strings over each pickup is roughly the same on both basses, and that the trimpots are set similarly (certainly if you want to compare with the blend in the middle). Action should be roughly the same too.
 
Also, consider what your rig is contributing to the sound. Try skipping fx units, and set most controls to what sounds neutral (or even dry) to you. Then start working back to your preferred sound, and compare what you need to change between basses to get the same sound.
 
By the way, have you considered getting a SF-2?
 
(Good thing you're reporting yourself to Dave: I might have come down hard on you.)

[jazzyvee]

Adriaan thanks for your input. I do have an SF-2 in my main rig tho not had any chance to use it live for a while and at home the nice deep bass settings tend to move my cd's off the rack onto the floor.
 
I have a nice gig coming up soon so may give it an outing and take my Maple Europa for it's first gig.
 
Jazzyvee