Using a Pedal Board with my Series II

[ajdover]

Dave - tried what you suggest - no noise.
 
Elwood - yes.  I ran the superfilter in stereo up until now, and it worked fine.  Granted, I wasn't using my effects with it either (the tuner was in the effects loop, and that was it), but there you have it.  And thanks for the props - I should be thanking you guys for all the help.
 
I think using the setup David suggested is what's going to work for now.  I'll continue to work with it and see what else I can do.  I still can't explain why I'm getting that noise.  I've turned the output down on all of my pedals, and it's still doing it, though David's suggested setup (with the pedalboard earlier in the signal path) seems to be what's working.
 
More to follow.
 
Alan

[David Houck]

No noise  Good.  The SF-2 should be fine, and the issue is probably just getting everything in an order that will work well.  Another issue I had when setting my rig up was getting all the different gains set to where nothing was overdriving anything else, which is what you seem to be addressing now.  I think you're making good progress.

[elwoodblue]

That is what I was thinking too,
   In some of my setups I've had to keep the Superfilter direct and filter gains very low (2-5) in order to be friendly with the next piece of gear ...then later in the chain I can add more gain .
 
 
With the boost a SF-2 can provide I could see it overdriving some component in the F1-X , maybe even the tube, I forget where in the signal path with the loop that is.
 
Happy hunting!

[dfung60]

Alan -  
 
Good to hear that you're closer to a working setup.  
 
If the pedalboard behaves well when it's in front of the F-1X but not in the effects loop, then this is probably an impedance problem with the last floor effect in the chain (your envelope filter).  You could try removing it from the chain and see if the other stuff lives in the loop or not.
 
If this is a pedal problem, the way that you fix it is to put a buffer amp after it in the chain.  This would be something like the simple amps that people use with piezo pickups - no EQ change and unity gain, but a high input impedance so your pedal will work right.
 
The Alembic stuff is designed to be simple and have wide bandwidth, which can lead to problems when you're in the area above and below what you can hear.  If the SF-2 had frequency response out to 100KHz, there's no way you can hear it, but because it's not limited, you might be asking your power amp to amplify a highly boosted signal that your speakers can't reproduce.  You can fix these problems with filters that get rid of ultrasonic frequencies.  Alembic could have built these in, but I think they opted for purity and simplicity of the design knowing that few people would have feedback problems.  
 
Ron's very sophisticated ELF-1 subwoofer controller was designed to optimize extreme low end response by creating an active boost that was very precisely tailored to the response of the speaker and cabinet.  If I remember correctly, it had a settable subsonic filter that limited the bottom end response to save amps and speakers from extraneous subsonic stuff like handling noise.  You guys may be too young to have played much vinyl, but back in the day of warped records and not much power, you could easily get weird periodic distortion effects when playing warped records with a good turntable.
 
David Fung

[ajdover]

David - I tried everything you said.  Here are the results:
 
F1-X only with the pedalboard in the loop - no problems.
 
SF-2 in the loop, no pedalboard - no problems.
 
Pedalboard earlier in the signal chain, SF-2 in the loop - still noise, but more manageable.  I start to get noise when I turn the treble knob up towards 8 on the F1-X, but at least I can activate the high pass filter and treble switch on the F1-X now with no ill effects that I can notice.
 
And you're right, I was giving you the wrong info on the pedals - the Boss trem is the first one, not the last ... my bad!
 
Any further thoughts?
 
Alan

[ajdover]

David,
 
   I took the envelope filter out of the loop, and still had the same problems.
 
    What kind of buffer amp do I need to put into the chain and where?
 
Thanks,
 
Alan

[dfung60]

Alan -  
 
A buffer amp is just a preamp IC, like the ones in your bass. The floor version will have power filtering and a box.  There used to be a lot of cheap versions of these, typically used when you want to connect a raw piezo pickup to a regular guitar amp.  These days, most guitars like this have the buffer amp built into the guitar itself.  Because of that, instead of being a $20-30 box they're expensive.  An example of the kind of thing I'm talking about would be the Radial Big Shot PB-1 which looks to cost about $140 or Dunlop/MXR Micro Amp for half that.  
 
If impedance was the problem, then you'd try this with the pedal board in the effects loop, then the buffer (set so there's no increase in output levfel), then the SF-2.  
 
But this may not be the problem.  When you put the pedal board in front of the F-1X, it should be pretty much buffered already, but you're still getting squeal from the SF-2 in the loop.  So, the problem may be too much treble gain.  You might consider seeing whether Alembic might give you some guidance on a filter that would take out the extreme highs to get rid of these problems.  If you lopped off highs about 10-20K before the effects send, you'd probably see improvement on the problem at very low cost.
 
David Fung